I really really *do not think* the majority of the Democrat voter base hates and reviles the U.S. flag., and I think people saying that need to spend more time off the Internet talking to people.
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Absolutely agree. I love America. I despise people who use the flag to push an agenda that is totally un-American Yes, trump racists I am talking about you. They are hiding behind a flag to attack our democracy...that I hate.
Thanks for making this case. I’ve been contacting my organizer friends that they need to have flags and Uncle Sam hats dominate the events. You couldn’t be more correct on this
I don’t hate the US flag. I’m sad there are a lot of people who are racist white nationalists who drape it over everything. Makes it a bit complicated to fly one in a diverse neighborhood when lots of those racists fly them.
I fly a flag to honor my father's service in Vietnam and defending the DMZ/Korea. I am surrounded by conservatives and I want them to know that we share similar experiences but different politics.
I think performative anti-patriotic sentiment among leftists is a major impediment to their goals. Many of us liberals are on board with drastic moves to ensure political, social, and economic equality. What we are not on board with is treating America like the disease instead of the patient.
Even Lenin - who to be clear I regard as a world-historical butcher and no friend of justice - was not fool enough to blame the Russian Empire’s many evils on Russia as a concept. He blamed the ruling class!
woof. I mean, I get that flags are symbols that will have different meanings based on people's experience with them, but I feel that arguing with the symbol is the wrong strategy
Its the experience that matters. So if you want the flag to represent good, then hold the flag as you do good things.
I have been working on getting over my involuntary negative reaction to seeing the flag displayed in a non-governmental or milquetoast business context.
For so long the Right used it in the grossest ways. But it wasn't the flag that was the problem. It was the person hiding behind it.
It has, thus, been helpful to me the way the Right has been replacing the American flag with overt signaling flags, be they MAGA/Trump, Stars & Bars, Thin Blue Line, Molon Labe, or whatever.
They aren't wrapping themselves in our flag anymore. It's fully available to reclaim.
(That said, if you're gonna put an American flag bumper sticker on your car, enamel pin on your jacket, or fly it at your home, I would still appreciate it if you also displayed some other context clues.)
No hate or revilement but it doesn't represent what it once did for me. Maybe one day it will again. I sat through a city council meeting where too many people felt it was okay to wrap their prejudice around that flag. Hard not to think of that every time I see it.
I saw some sponsored ad creep into my Instagram page from a RW person w/ a photo of the flag with the caption “It’s okay to love the American flag” like girl: No one hates the US flag. We just don’t put a serial rapist who hates America over the country. These losers truly live in their own bubble.
as someone who considers myself on the more leftist flag disliker side of things, and someone who spends far too much time online, i dont understand how leftists do not grasp how disparate their views are from the median american
I was in Denver yesterday (2/5/25) and it was wild to see many flags at the protest. There were many US flags but it was outnumbered by Mexican flags and it was cool with that. I understand why the Mexican flag was predominantly flown especially in a land that was once apart of Mexico.
Consider every recent protest internationally to try to prevent or take back their country from a fascist regime. Every single one has the protesters wrapped in THEIR flag, because they were taking (or attempting to take) their country back. It’s a potent simple of hope.
I don’t get the whole patriot thing. I do think we should have a humane equitable democracy based government underpinned by laws to maintain that structure, and that those principles should apply to everyone who lives here.
As yes, the cosplay communists - where there is no racism, power struggles, tyranny, queerphobia or any other bigotry because everyone is a comrade worker that works for the workers work
I find it difficult to feel pride, but I'm confounded to find I'm more of a patriot than any of these flag-waving traitors, monarchists, putinists, and theocrats. We are right to take it back those who spit on everything it stands for.
Taking back our flag has no down sides. As a little treat, it also pisses off the right when we do it. I can’t even describe how mad they got over Kamala’s whole chest embrace of patriotism. They think this country and it’s symbolism is theirs. Fuck them.
I’m an old line Boston Democrat living in deep southern Virginia. I fly historically significant flags year round. I refuse to let these chodes hijack our heritage.
This. I've also argued this for Texas/Texans. Allowing RWers to claim the state identity & flag, erasing the history of Texans who have made their lives about fighting for civil rights & sassing TX Republicans is a huge mistake. I am unapologetically American, Texan, & progressive.
We have data on this and it sends a very clear message. And I suspect Democrats are already becoming even more flag-positive since the Musk/Trump shit deluge began:
The flag can be popular but still have a different effect depending on who is waving it. Research suggests that seeing the flag makes viewers support Republicans more one way or another. https://bsky.app/profile/xlenc.bsky.social/post/3lhk4z72jyk2g
That seems to be about politicians/candidates posing with it though? We're talking about flags at protests. I fail to see how that is going to make people support Trump more.
That's true, and I haven't seen research on protests specifically. But it busts the assumption that having an American flag always boosts support for your cause regardless of who you are; it can even backfire.
Yes, and perhaps this has different effects, but it means we can't assume that the fact that the US flag is popular necessarily makes people waving flags (including protesters) more popular. We know that the flag effect often backfires, especially for non-conservatives.
Do you know if there’s a more recent survey? 2025 is very different from 2021.
I assume what happened in the past couple of years (with the MAGA crazy) may have changed a lot of people’s perception on the flag.
I still think anyone driving a lifted truck with battered and torn flags flying off of it should have the flags honorably retired over the burning shell of the truck.
I must say I have had my issues with the flag, in my mind and some people I know thinking it’s a symbol of oppression, but I want to also acknowledge that people that believe in the potential of this country want it to represent hope, dignity, equity, and liberty. This thread has enlightened me.
I am writing as a US Army veteran who deployed to Iraq for 13 months, I want the flag to viewed with all the bluster that I thought it held when I was child. We should be able to say that people to see it as such and the same people may see it through another lens. Many things can be true.
it makes me think of the bit in the Vorkosigan saga, during the street fighting during the Pretendership, where Aral makes one of his troops take off a brown-and-silver Vorkosigan armband he’s added to his regular uniform
“You HAVE a uniform, let the traitors deface theirs”
I don't hate the flag but at this point let's just say if I see someone sporting it on their clothes or as a sticker on their car it makes me apprehensive.
This flag belongs to Musk and his band of racists and everyone should shit all over it. The Stars and Stripes is ours, and the apartheid loving pieces of shit can keep their oily fingers off of it thankyouverymuch.
I have some disdain for the flag myself, but you know what flags I hate to my very core? Trump flags, thin blue line flags, 3%er flags, proud boy flags. Those are the flags that they’ll be flying. I agree, we have to take back and use the U.S. flag to win this.
I am a lifelong Dem and I like the flag. I think we should stand up for America’s promise, that all men are created equal, stand up for freedom and for free and fair elections, and fly the flag proudly.
Full transparency, this thread is eye opening. I used to be pretty neutral about the US flag, but now I associate it with people who wish harm on me and my loved ones. I wouldn't say I hate it, but definitely when I see it displayed by a private citizen, I assume the worst of them.
At least it’s visually distinctive, if garish! Like the Pride flag(s)!
Way too many flags are “three stripes” in variations of red/white/blue, red/white/green, or red/black/green, and it’s impossible to remember which represents what
And while we're at it lets carry that bad boy through the woods with us as we march into battle and try to blend in with nature so we don't get shot at 🤣
I certainly don’t hate the American flag. I’m insulted by many who are waving it, without any knowledge of its meaning, as we all should be - but that’s different.
@thegreer.bsky.social is putting the proper context on what was happening with the flag… I’m guessing a lot of Dems (or progressives or liberals) were distressed when the flag felt usurped. The opportunity to add context (an affiliation) was needed- I never found one- let’s settle on something
For my part, context clues should neither be prescriptive or covert. If flying a rainbow or BLM flag next to your American flag is right for you, do that. Here in California you can also generally use our Bear Flag.
If a cringe COEXIST sticker or an In This House lawn sign is your thing, be cringe.
IMO, people need to be displaying reverence for the American flag at protests — to the point where they need to be vigilant about proactively protecting it.
Keeps the message clear and to the point, allows for fewer opportunistic distractions.
The flag is a bit of a sore spot for me, because it's been twisted so hard that I can't have it near me without some dude who throws around the hard R thinking I'm his buddy. It's fucking gross. And I get trying to reclaim it, it just makes me sad a bit.
It's a bit like us Liberal Christians having to hide when we are at progressive meetings because of all the anti-Christian things wallpapered on us due to Christian Nationalists. We are reclaiming OUR Jesus. You know, the one that says to give to the poor, love people and treat foreigners humanely.
Also I wish certain internet leftists could understand that they don't have to personally embrace flag waving patriotism to acknowledge the strategic benefits of letting others employ that kind of symbolism.
also this is silly because the Democrat voter base is far from a majority bloc of the nation's population. remember how large the non-voting bloc is, and how much they think liberals are freaks for worshiping things that obviously hate poor people
We put out our U.S. flag several times a year on certain holidays, Memorial Day, Flag Day, Fourth of July, etc. Democrats are proud Americans, who love our flag, our country and our democracy. People who say differently, are people who couldn't form their own opinions, if their life depended on it.
I think there is something to be said for the flag (especially flag swag - forgive the rhyme) as something of a shibboleth.
I have this kneejerk reaction where I find myself trying to determine if they’re patriotic or nationalistic.
I’m neutral on the flag itself. The issue for me is the why.
My Dad was a WWII Veteran and I learned to love the Flag thru what it meant to him. He was a Democrat a Union man and a Nazi hater! I still love the Flag. I refuse to let Repubs or far lefties or anyone else change that!
it wasn't Democrats or liberals or leftists or progressives who tore down the Stars and Stripes from our nation's capitol and replaced it with their own standard. it was Trump cultists.
speaking of patriotic imagery, when someone like Faine reskeets you and the reacts start rolling in, it's like that scene in Independence Day where the President sees into the alien's mind and gets a glimpse of their civilization
oh god oh fuck is this what it's like being a Big Account?
Every Democrat I know gets teary over the US flag and the national anthem. Start singing America the Beautiful and we weep like watching an old fashioned AT&T commercial.
I try to have sympathy for people who have suffered thru decades of Republican rule and Democratic inaction. It's pretty easy to hate the US and the symbols that stand for it. Our last 25 yrs been ugly
But u are right: I'm not letting Republicans decide what it means to be American. Fuck that shit.
it's not all i see, but that's what's winning right now and that's what the countries outside of the us see when they think of us. the promise of america is only the bare minimum of most of western countries. healthcare, equal rights, fair treatment of other people. we are fighting for the bare min.
I'm sympathetic and want to seize on "the promise of america."
The promise of America is doing better, because we demand the same. If there is an American value, it is aspiration, and so let us aspire to be better. To give up on the entire project is to admit defeat, which I will not.
This is brain dead loser bullshit. You can't build or maintain a popular or successful political movement by overtly hating America. It's straight up the dumbest, most counterproductive strategy possible. So shut the fuck up, get the fuck out of the way, and let the adults handle this.
You are not representative of even a large minority of Democrats. You are just an idiot. Please exist my country at once because you are nothing but a burden.
That's what the flag has been made to represent by the RW, but that isn't how most people have viewed it, within living memory. We should all want it and our country back from fascists. Unless you truly hate the US, in which case by all means, find a country you prefer, and go support that one.
The message “we want people that hate the flag,the country, and religion” is not a winning message or going to get a politician anywhere beyond maybe a library board. Which I was on when I was 16.
It certainly isn’t going to lead to a glorious revolution.
There were former slaves who were able to set aside their *entire* experience living in this country in order to rally and fight under the Union flag. They knew as much as anybody of how low this country could stoop, but they understood the value of having a flag to muster under.
The guy who wrote What to the Slave is the Fourth of July, who said some of the most venomous things about this country anyone’s ever said, also not only defended its promise and potential but proudly sent his son off in the 54th Massachusetts to slay the Slave Power forever.
Then there’s no point in trying to save that country and the people who suffer at the hands of racists and sexists and homophobes and transphobes and bigots. Is that the message you’re going with?
“Bad country” is such a naive take. These kind of people exist in all societies and countries, and groups. “Good” people do too, but what’s your definition? Consider the history of the world & if US experiment is worth fighting for. Then what does your message accomplish?
Ooh…sorry Tricia - that is not what the flag represents. The sort of persons you reference are parts of our population, sadly pathetic humans which tend to turn up in most cultures.
I fly the American flag right next to my Pride and Iron Front flags because I believe in the promise of liberty and hope and prosperity for all, even if my country fails to meet its own ideas all too often. The better angels of our nature have a place!
There is no country that does not have racists and sexists and so on. And policies have improved over the history. Until dorks like you decided that improvement wasn't enough and wanted to blow the thing up.
You sound just like a fascist apologist saying that they because they didn't use the n-word they weren't racist. You didn't say it but you sure meant it.
Refusing to acknowledge the good in our nation and our people is part of what got us into this mess.
Oh we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
And we'll rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom.
The Union forever, hurrah! boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Oh we're springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks with a million freemen more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom.
We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although he may be poor, he shall never be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
So we're springing to the call from the East and from the West,
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom;
And we'll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love the best,
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom.
That's because you don't think of the country as a country of descendants of slaves, asylum seekers, queer people, and families trying to raise their children to be better - that is a you problem.
If you hate what the flag represents, then fight to make it represent something better in the future. It's pretty simple. There's nothing inherently *bad* about the American flag.
i think of it as a place that was started on a bad premise by bad people who stole land, and enslaved people to start it. we have been trying to wrest it from that.
America is an idea. A constant work in progress. You can fight for it or not. Study history and you'll hate pretty much every country if you allow yourself. If nothing else, I suspect you don't want to live in whatever TF eborg & yamtits are planning.
If your view is that the future of the US is not worth fighting for ie that Trump should be allowed to immiserate everyone who isn’t white and straight , that’s your view but it makes you a Trump-licker.
wow good point, you convinced me, I now see no reason to try to fight off an attempted coup by an unreconstructed ketamine-addled Boer and his band of fascist teenage incels because it's what we deserve anyway
that was the political effect you're going for, right?
I completely agree and never thought about it that way before! Since the US does some bad things sometimes, we should hand it over to megalomaniacal billionares who take glee in the suffering and deaths of others. Then the suffering can be multiplied a hundredfold but at least it won't be our fault.
Or what I call “I’m the biggest piece of shit in the universe which should revolve around me” it’s kind of a simplification of how many people, especially with Borderline, Sociopathy, Narcissists, etc act
For a lot of these people, the answer is: yes. Step out of the way, watch the fascists crash the whole thing, and work on mutual aid networks which we swear can look after people just as well as the state bureaucracy
your comment is intemperate and ableist, and also greatly misreads my point. You should delete it, as assuming you are a remotely reasonable person, you’ll feel bad for having posted it once you calm down
A lot of people have suffered from American policy, so it’s understandable that it doesn’t mean positive things to everyone. Instead of asking people to march in lockstep, you can simply bring your friends along and be the patriotic messaging you want to see
I'm not sniping at people who don't have positive associations with the flag! *I personally* have very mixed feelings about the flag!
I am asking those people not to snipe at people who *do* have positive associations with the flag, because that is insta-death for any movement's mass appeal.
I suppose I read the message you replied to as “we (meaning I and people with similar beliefs as me) hate the flag because…” and so it read that way with the context I saw. I apologize if that wasn’t what you meant
Most of politics is messaging, and I regret to inform you that the messages that appeal to a bunch of sophomore Middlebury philosophy majors probably will not have a lot of mass appeal in a country where even most left-of-center people think patriotism is good and important.
We have a similar problem with the English flag 🏴. It's been adopted by the far right. But the British flag 🇬🇧 doesn't yet have the same bad associations.
I don't hate or revile the flag. I just don't see a piece of cloth as being all that important. What it is supposed to stand for is much more important, and I hold the ideals closer in my heart than my regard cloth.
It's a useful rallying device and communicates to the general population that you are American and on their side. Ideally it maybe shouldn't matter but in reality the only way for any sort of resistance to succeed is with at least some degree of patriotism.
I understand what a symbol is. I just don't confuse the symbol with the thing. I'm patriotic. I love my country, or rather the possibility of the US. I want it to live up to stated ideals. Just because I don't hold a piece of cloth sacred doesn't mean that I'm not patriotic.
It’s this weird delusional thing you see on social media from people who think democrats attend weekly antifa meetings at the local planned parenthood.
Remember when the insurgents tore down the American flag from the US Capitol and raised the Trump flag in its place? That flag is OURS. They chose their new one to wave.
Not revile, no. But as a symbol that used to make me feel very proud of my country and values now it just makes me incredibly sad. I don't think I'll ever feel that way about it again and that makes me even sadder. (Some of it was growing up and traveling more...but mostly the last 13 years.)
Few things I have decided to do, was put pronouns in my signature, as well as loudly bring up my military service when Chads talk MAGA shit before correcting them.
I'm a loudmouth Dem, one of several on a two-block stretch in Denver. We fly the American flag. Other libs do too. I had the Ukrainian flag up for a season.
Comments
Or robots
…..megazords
Its the experience that matters. So if you want the flag to represent good, then hold the flag as you do good things.
For so long the Right used it in the grossest ways. But it wasn't the flag that was the problem. It was the person hiding behind it.
They aren't wrapping themselves in our flag anymore. It's fully available to reclaim.
We must offer DC, PR + VI, and Guam and the Pacific islands statehood for legal and moral reasons. But also for dumb flag aesthetic ones.)
But not me.
The UNION FOREVER HURRAH THERE HURRAH! Down with the traitor and UP with the stars!
Most everyone either likes it or loves it.
Let your freedom flag fly!
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/42993-how-americans-view-flags-and-symbols-poll
https://www.southernfriedscience.com/the-story-of-the-pride-flag-made-from-nasa-imagery-blueskys-most-liked-image/
https://bsky.app/profile/rachellense.bsky.social/post/3kuvnhnrgsk2m
Most MAGAs are fixated on owning libs for the lulz.
many (most?) people don’t know that. they don’t see the flag representing the US-as-it-is, but the ideals it professes
people want to *belong* and *believe in something*, that’s good and valuable
https://poets.org/poem/let-america-be-america-again
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/35021-what-americans-think-american-flag-poll-data
They're confederates and we all know it
Never cede patriotism or love of America to the GOP ... especially now.
The American flag became synonymous with racist whites, with 'patriotism' that was just nationalism in a thin coat of paint.
So I donned the flags of my heritage, the Irish.
But this flag is all of ours.
I assume what happened in the past couple of years (with the MAGA crazy) may have changed a lot of people’s perception on the flag.
“You HAVE a uniform, let the traitors deface theirs”
The U.S has a constitution. If people don't want to follow that then they will face the consequences sooner or later
Trump/Musk are sociopaths. its all about the 'now' Sociopaths have no concept of tomorrow or next week let alone 4 years
The little ones are Transvaaaaaaal and the Orange Free State, maybe?
Way too many flags are “three stripes” in variations of red/white/blue, red/white/green, or red/black/green, and it’s impossible to remember which represents what
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/35021-what-americans-think-american-flag-poll-data
If a cringe COEXIST sticker or an In This House lawn sign is your thing, be cringe.
watching this from the outside....erhm....
US Democrats are, in average, nationalist-racist right wing radicals.
GOP and MAGA? NSDAP on an ugly mix of fentanyl and cocaine 🤷🏻
I have met many Americans in my life. NOT ONE hated the flag. Not even the Native Americans.
Keeps the message clear and to the point, allows for fewer opportunistic distractions.
No more.
I love my country.
I love the beautiful flag that represents everything it has the potential to be.
And they are not stealing it from me without a fucking fight.
2) I took the OP point to be, not insisting anybody must wave flag at protests but rather simply refrain from trash talking those who do wave flag
I have this kneejerk reaction where I find myself trying to determine if they’re patriotic or nationalistic.
I’m neutral on the flag itself. The issue for me is the why.
oh god oh fuck is this what it's like being a Big Account?
But u are right: I'm not letting Republicans decide what it means to be American. Fuck that shit.
The promise of America is doing better, because we demand the same. If there is an American value, it is aspiration, and so let us aspire to be better. To give up on the entire project is to admit defeat, which I will not.
It certainly isn’t going to lead to a glorious revolution.
It’s ridiculous to imagine it might be.
or you are a plant or troll saying the stupidest shit
🇺🇸
Our flag represents hope and overcoming hate, standing strong against the worst evil, and the promise of new opportunity.
You are giving in to the fascists with this shit.
So let's take it back.
Oh we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
And we'll rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom.
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks with a million freemen more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom.
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although he may be poor, he shall never be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom;
And we'll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love the best,
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom.
if these guys marched under the flag so can you
https://bsky.app/profile/justostrich.com/post/3lhhhxtbizk2e
by the way, nationalism is bad.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/35021-what-americans-think-american-flag-poll-data
How much more useful do you need it to be?
not the worst but not the best either
They do so, because the U.S. flag, as is, "Does Not" represent their cause.
Far Leftists are same as MAGA...their way or destroy it all.
It alienates most Democrats & Independents.
that was the political effect you're going for, right?
And actually, there are quite a lot of people who would agree with both your premise and my conclusion!
For the foreseeable future, I am going to treat the US flag as a symbol of what the country should be, and not what it is or has been.
I don’t get the point of sniping at people who don’t have positive associations with the American flag
I am asking those people not to snipe at people who *do* have positive associations with the flag, because that is insta-death for any movement's mass appeal.
I'll just be one more person crushed by america.
if this country is ever rehabilitated, then fine. until then, it’s a Nazi symbol to me.
ymmv
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/35021-what-americans-think-american-flag-poll-data
fuckin asshole