in all seriousness: one of the most important philosophical questions of our time
Reposted from
Ernst W. Ruhmer
It does seem to be getting out of hand.
How does a society reestablish the cultural taboo against lying out out of your ass?
How does a society reestablish the cultural taboo against lying out out of your ass?
Comments
make calling out bullshit more socially important than being polite and civil
the moment we stopped swearing at people who deserved to be sweared at we gave up an important societal tool, which is shame and mockery for someone having notions and trying to sound important
Good luck with that at this point
We didn't get the international reputation we had from being fraudulent or cruel.
That kind of thinking is a lie.
Propagandists love them, because they are easy to rile up and target.
1b. have them say "I am doing this because they lied. it's for lying. the lies are why we are doing this."
2. co-opt people's monkeybrains: if people get righteous dopamine hits for punishing liars they will do nothing but look for opportunities to do that
Just shut that shit down early & often. Dunk on people if you have to. Idk.
We could even start using "horseshit" to mean this.
Avoiding the Appearance of Impropriety
Degraded to
Maintain Plausible Deniability
Devolved to
Prove It Beyond any Doubt In a Crooked Court
On to Full Fascism
The Courts Aren't the Boss of Me,
Shut up or We'll Send You to El Salvador
Normally, you can find some authority or standard of truth that you can measure against to determine lies. We don't even have that.
No idea how to actually get it done.
Instead of, you know, our current approach of no consequences.
but that's it, cause the "taboo" is just fear, specifically fear of being annihilated.
Cause they realized there were no consequences to doing so. That's it.
Trump!
If Trump isn’t allowed to get away with his VICIOUS PATHOLOGICAL LYING~ then no one else will either!
Punishment is the ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS “BAD BEHAVIOR”!
Norms and social pressure are great, but their force degrades over time without the threat of actual consequences.
It would also help for Rupert Murdoch to die. Just saying.
Social opprobrium.
Perjury charges.
Professional setbacks (not getting hired/promoted/invited onto talk shows).
None of these are happening now because there’s a vast ecosystem that rewards the liars coupled with an atrophied legal system.
Re-electing Trump (hell having a major party put him forward in the first place) was a pretty giant sign that at least pretence of honesty was no longer needed and accountability soon would follow.
What were the consequences for the people who lied about Iraq? Who lied about Vietnam? Who lied about Afghanistan? What consequences have liberals inflicted on Biden's inner circle?
I don't care whose side you're ooooooon! Truth is truth and lies are lies!
the general atmosphere of distrust incurred by the deceitful actions of the state dept have all contributed to this mess we're in
there were no consequences for any of this
i mean, theres a reason theres not much controversy over invading afghanistan vs iraq
there were no goddamn wmds in iraq, that was straight up a lie
but it was universally understood that the taliban harbored bin laden and al qaeda. causus belli, qed
It's been a generational issue. Wouldn't say it wasn't an issue before that, but his papers and Fox News do nothing but it.
Others in dentist waiting room: book book book book
Dentist and receptionist: what’s going on out here?
All in unison: BOOK BOOK BOOK BOOK
You can tell people that his empire is built on fraud and they go, “Ok but the jet’s real.” If you only live once, if the world’s going to shit, and if you don’t seem to get punished? Who cares?
Jared Kushner used his government job to commit atrocities and make a billion dollars. I think he’s an idiot who should be on trial; but a lot of people would make that deal.
And I think Obama and Biden erred, tragically, when they came into office insisting that they were only “looking forward” and wouldn’t re-litigate the actions/crimes of their predecessors.
But I think it needs to come from the top.
They need to define and model *and* enforce what responsible citizenship should be.
Some media/Democrats seem to get this; I think we just need to support and amplify them.
There is no incentive for people to be truthful, quite the opposite.
Bigger picture: Stomp out fascism's appeal with (at least) a New Deal-style wealth distribution. Get people invested in the country's success, and they'll have less interest in comforting lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0n2vurSBIQ
Make honesty a virtue again.
Ricoeur, Conflict of interpretations
I wish my side would get through their heads that we are not considered deserving of human rights and respect. We have been successfully othered.
I wish there was an answer. If there is, I sure don't know it.
Call out boldfaced lying to people’s faces. Openly. Not online. Not later. To. Their. Face.
Apply fair consequences for misbehavior on individuals. Do it justly and without fear of retaliation from the rich.
I feel like I have heard UK journalists say stuff like “but that is not true, is it?” and then directly contradict with facts or evidence. US journalists go very soft.