These teenagers and young men — 95% of whom are Black, Latinx, or Filipino — earn between $2.20 and $4 per hour, plus an additional $1 an hour when they’re actively fighting fires, according to the DJJ. ⤵️
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add rfk's "work farms" aka incarceration of people with ADHD, and the criminalization of all trans people, and boy howdy you got yourself one hell of an indentured workforce
While this doesn't take away from the main point about prison labor in firefighting, since the publication of this article in 2021, all DJJ facilities in CA have been closed per SB 823 and DJJ has ceased operations. The situation for incarcerated youth is somewhat different now.
SB 823 "realigned" young people incarcerated in DJJ facilities to their home counties, so they will instead find themselves in a juvenile hall, secure youth treatment facility, foster care placement, etc., instead of a state-run youth prison.
Pine Grove Youth Conservation Camp facility, which this article mentions as the only remaining fire camp for youth in CA, still exists but has been taken over by CDCR's Division of Adult Facilities. County-level youth facilities aren't likely sending teenagers to fight wildfires.
I don't mean to imply any necessary improvement to the material conditions or experience of youth in county-level facilities compared to state youth prisons. I just mean to say that the scenario described in this article is not occurring right now, with respect to the LA area fires.
This article isn’t currents. Laws have changed and been amended since 2021 regarding incarcerated fire fighters. Please update with current accurate info.
Prison labour is big business in the US, despite their training and skills it’s very tough for them to find work after being released even if they participate in this slavery adjacent program.
Slavery adjacent??? The constitution only ended private slavery, the amendment literally says the only way slavery is allowed is as punishment for a crime
The industry of slavery never ended in the United States
The voters in California voted to keep slavery in the CA constitution this last November, which is why this exists. Think about that.. In 2024, the supposedly "woke", "liberal", state of California explicitly voted to keep slavery legal.
That's disgusting. Oh hey go get irreversible lung damage and possibly become disfigured or killed because we can't possibly take precautionary measures to prevent these instead of using prisoners, of now all ages, as fire fodder.
Incarcerated people being captive do not have truly elective choices. They cannot, for example, choose freedom only variations on their confinement/immiseration.
And these are young people whose brains haven't even fully developed.
What would you say is the thesis of this? I'm not inclined to spend time considering it, but offhand would disagree that free will/choice doesn't exist--lots of things shape choices and lots of circumstances can't be chosen, but we can choose how and whether we respond to them.
it's still only possible for any individual after a lengthy and expensive process, and only for those who were not convicted of a violent offense. Which is to say, it hasn't really changed much at all.
The article talks about how the California law has changed, but it's still almost impossible for these folks to get hired. Other states with similar programs haven't even changed their laws yet.
They volunteer. They're not forced. The program is designed to rehabilitate offenders, and it offers training and experience to prepare them for a career as a firefighter once they're released. It fosters community connection through public service, and can reduce their sentences.
That used to be impossible (firefighting crews had a criminal bg check that they literally couldn't pass)! But I think they changed the law on that in the last year or so? Although they declined to change the law about paying them.
This is okay in California i just learned from the John Landis trial when he illegally hired two children to film a dangerous scene with pyrotechnics & a helicopter which crashed and cut the children in half along with their adult co-star Vic Morrow in 1982. Acquitted!
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These people do this in exchange for far more than just pay, but I'm not going to honor you with the $0.0001 earned from my click on this.
It reduces their sentence by something like 4-5x. AND many of them go into this as a career after. All the training & experience they get isn't worthless.
tagalog is already a gender neutral language so it's not necessary. filipino is already gender neutral. just because it ends in -o doesn't make it masculine, because it's not spanish.
US Vice President Kamala Harris' home in Los Angeles was under an evacuation order Tuesday evening local time due to the intense wildfires ravaging the city.
Could he do it ?
Could some of his insane Criminal minded Maga do it for him and his Hate to Harris ?
Yes 🔥🔥🔥🔥They could have make the fire
The Brits lost easy access to slave labour in America in 1776 so set up a “prison labour” camp in another bit of colonised land on 1788 away from the eyes of the abolitionists back at home.
The Brits tried to keep sending prison labourers & indentured servants to the US after revolution broke out, but they kept running away to join the revolution, so they stopped
Conversely there were 12 ex-US slaves on the 1st fleet that had joined the Brits against their masters
This is unconscionable. Slave labor by another name. They should be paid well, given priority for early release, and have access to money management resources. If, that is, we want them to succeed when they get out.
first things first. I don't tend to think they should or could be abolished. But the number of people we're incarcerating is criminal, as are conditions in US jails and prisons. Scandinavian countries - or at least Norway – have a better model. And it'd be nice to have mental institutions again.
they can and should. capitalism is an exponential factor of the conditions that bring people to their behaviors that harm others. alienation, starvation, exploitation, dehydration, and many more bring about worsened mental and physical conditions, exasterbated by therapy that doesnt work & "profit".
Horrendous. Slavery and child labor is alive and well in this country. These new fellas only talking about criminalizing, detaining, and deporting to get more people here to work for longer, cheaper, and ever younger.
They get a 66.7% sentence reduction, it is by far the best way to reduce your sentence. Plus it gives them a purpose, plus it gives them a ton of training, plus they make money.
Read the article. There's a way IF a judge takes pity on you. Otherwise, can't get EMT because of their conviction. Can't become a firefighter because they aren't an EMT.
Got it. I was a bit confused because the article referred to DJJ which means they are in the juvenile system, and I thought once released their records wouldn’t be public and not an issue. But apparently they are and expunges needed. And the courts haven’t prioritized this, they are overwhelmed.
So I’m seeing a disconnect between the intent of the law and the actual implementation, with the wrinkle that the courts have made it clear that expungement is the only path. Quick question though - the original article talked about teens. How does that play into this? Aren’t the records sealed?
Plus Cali firefighters can arrest people - deputized. They can’t become fire fighters in CA, not all of them even live in CA or plan to stay there afterwards.
That's exactly why we passed a law allowing inmate firefighters to get their records expunged. Then they can become EMTs and work for any fire department.
Slavery is still legal in the US constitution in the prison system as punishment and frankly I find that fucked up. It's one thing if people in prisons volunteer to do work but they should be able to make a livable wage. They're being set up for failure when they're released and have no money
Not only that, but any injuries they face or health deterioration they suffer from the job is ignored and they have no recourse for help later in life because "criminals in jail".
These are the same people that act shitty about all the homeless people in their cities while actively fucking them over and making things worse so I'm not surprised
I sometimes like growing up in literal Proud Boy country better than living now in liberal CA. At least those yt supremacists are -phobic to your face instead of hiding it behind dead eyed smiles.
Tbh I'm glad I moved out of CA last year, being around hypocrites who stop giving a single shit about you if you can't Work 24/7/265 is exhausting and alienating
Says who? Criticize them all you want. No one is preventing you from criticizing Democratic politicians. I encourage it. Our politicians have failed us in a million ways.
I do criticize them. I was being facetious. A good number of Dems take rank offense to any sort of critique, which is part of how the party reached this place of complacency and impotence.
They SAY they support us but when it matters most don't show up.
Politicians are known for lying and I'd never thought of it until now, but that is a horrible precedent that we just let slide because "all politicians lie"
Something that is the norm that never should have become the norm.
I was so disappointed with the election results for propositions in California this year. Abolish prison slavery? NO! Make more crimes felonies again? YES! Rent control? NO! Etc…
Same for Ohio, though I wasn't surprised. I genuinely thought issue 1 would pass but it didn't. (citizens in charge of redistricting bc the committee in charge has delayed and gerrymandered to hell for months if not years)
Stop saying Latinx. Latin people hate that shit. You're not doing it for them, you're doing it for yourself. It's selfish and tone deaf and your social media rep sounds stupid for using it unironically
The blue states will need to be punished just as harshly as the red states, which is why liberals always side with fascism against genuine justice and change.
A failed country in action. Sad.
Only way is down in next decade. Complete collapse coming. Once trump fails what then? Dems aren’t upto it either.
Woke or maga? Both a disaster
We had to defund everything including fire to keep giving the police more and more money every year, so now our fire fighting relies heavily on slave labor. It isn't just the fire fighting. Soon it'll be everything, because we cannot satisfy the greed of the wealthy and never will.
Technically, yes, but no, actually. The salary budget was increased after union negotiations for higher pay and increased benefits. The operating budget was cut by $18 million before that. This means that the overall budget went up, but services were reduced.
Cut/stopped trying to fill vacant positions and reduced training time for pilots to get proficient at doing water/retardant drops were two of the examples given.
Yet when they get out their record a make them ineligible to be firefighters. If you fight the fires while incarcerated and you WANT to be a firefighter you should be able to do so
fuck these n*ggas tryna keep us blacks down!! If it wasn’t for the whyte man, ther woould be atleast 2 african countries that earn more than any other countries!!!!!! We blacks need to come together, and make sure that AMERICA is atleast 80% black by 2035!!!! Rise up my brothas and sistas!
It's not a loophole. It's just not chattle slavery. Main reason why majority of black & indigenous folk are the ones to be targeted by law enforcement and why we get longer sentences for doing the same thing compared to our white counterparts
Slavery never ended. It just morphed to be out of sight.
I'm a white person in another country and I can see that plain as day. Yeah, no loophole. It's just massaged wording but still slavery targeted at the same people.
And (unless things have changed considerably recently) won't be able to use that experience to actually get a job as a firefighter once they've served their sentence.
Well, actually now that I recall correctly, it was a book about Henry David Thoreau I years ago saw that particular formality about a protoscientifically-irrefutable Universal Truth.
Just so its clear, they arent being forced, its voluntary, obviously. And theyre inmates so of course their pay is shit, even as an actual wild land ff when I was 20 I made minimum wage, its crazy but thats just how it is.
Some are. They get sentenced Camps, where they are given a few weeks training, and then used as firefighters, for "rehabilitation"... and still can't get jobs.
Why are you pushing an outdated article that does not reflect current practices that are actively changing the way we treat these inmates during and post incarceration?
Hey TV, I like your reporting & you do a lot of good investigative journalism, but if you’re going to post the inflammatory bits, maybe you should also share how your article clearly & factually says that participation in the program is *voluntary*?
"The safety risk of fire and forestry work is high"
Children in state custody should never be put in dangerous situations, even if they want it. Better a hundred homes burn than one child gets hurt or worse.
If an eighteen year-old civilian can legally decide to join a fire department (or the military, police, etc.) why shouldn't an 18 year-old prisoner be allowed to do so?
The conditions in the fire camps are much better than in the prisons. How "voluntary" is that? It's like saying we have an "all-volunteer" military, when recruiting is disproportionately from populations that have no other way to get health care, job training, and education.
“Hernandez has been doing forestry work for almost a decade now and he is passionate about it being his life’s work, but he still doesn’t receive the same pay, benefits, or recognition as a certified firefighter employed by the state … who is the youth fire camp ultimately serving?”
This is so absurd and surreal! And the worst part is that even after these men serve their sentences, they cannot sign up to work as firefighters even though they have all the experience and skills.
Participation in the firefighter program (adult and teen) is voluntary, y’all. They don’t have to do it (and it has specific qualifiers. And CA law has been changed since this was published to allow prison firefighters to transition to civilian employment.
There was an op-ed that spoke to this. One volunteer said that the objections to the program made sense, but that the brutal work offered better living conditions than the detention center he lived in. SMH
Yes, and it's also prison labor, which is justifiably a thorny subject, even if it weren't ridiculously underpaid. A respectable publication tacitly spreading disinformation on the subject for rage-clicks does not help reform/abolition efforts.
This says a lot more bad about the carceral conditions elsewhere than good about this program. That being said, I appreciate programs that give people needed skills as long as there's a path to use them after they leave. And a full knowledge what it entails.
Yeah, I agree. If we're going to have prison labor, there is a firm argument that this is what it should look like: voluntary, with a paid wage (that needs to be higher), and with a direct pipeline to post-incarceration employment (a route that needs to be improved IMO).
If this program is voluntary AND led to an actual firefighter job upon release I think it would be a good thing. Eliminating the roadblock to be employed as a firefighter seems to be the cause to fight in this particular instance.
Another person posting a shitty comment full of unearned exclamation marks and emoticons. Throw a Laughing Until I Cry emoji in there and a few flags for the full set.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall be legal........except as a punishment for crime" US still doing their best to make use of that clause
I can see how alot of people can think this way, but these are convicted criminals, and they volunteered to do this. I imagine everyone at some point wanted to be a firefighter right? Well they were given that chance, so they took it. Honestly Id do the same, get a second chance to do something good
Volunteering under environments of cohesion or oppression (prison) is not volunteering. Freewill doesn’t exist, you are owned by the state.
Risking your life so you can have some money to live inside is not the same as volunteering and heading home to your stocked fridge and comfortable home.
In the article is says 27% of firefighters are incarcerated in CA but to say the exact number in the current fire would probably be impossible at this moment. probably safe to say around that percentage.
That is inaccurate. Incarcerated firefighters make up ~27% of CalFire's ranks, but a significantly smaller percentage of the total firefighting force of the state.
Until I have reason to believe otherwise, I'm going to assume they're basically good guys trying to make a positive difference. That's the kind of person who deserves a chance at a better life.
Legally approximately 30% of "teenagers" are not minors; they're adults who can't drink but don't have to be in school. This also comes up with the phrase "teen pregnancy" and occasionally leads to seriously confusing "teen"/"adult" crime stories in which the victim is older than the perpetrator.
Yeah. As long as they are legally of age to do firefighting (18+), which thankfully the article stated they are, then it is somewhat ethical to do this.
Hats off to Teen Vogue and the journalists that write pieces like these. Wish Vogue would step up and do the same instead of putting Bezos and his bimbo on the cover.
As California AG, Kamala Harris defied a supreme court order to release prisoners due to overcrowding so bad it was cruel and unusual punishment because California needed them as firefighters.
I worked with young ex convicts in the US at one point: they loved their time fighting fires. Way better than being locked up, good and plentiful food, freedom of movement, exercise, male bonding, sense of accomplishment. Not everyone thinks about things like middle class folks...
Yet they after serving their time, they can’t become firefighters. And just bc it seems better than being stuck in cell, some do die/get injured and all are being paid less than min wage which is still wrong. These are truths that have nothing to do with “middle class “ POV
So we’re basically using prison slave labor to fight the fires? Honestly I didn’t think this situation could get more depressing but here we fucking are.
That is truly haunting. It's nothing but slavery with extra steps. This shit is supposed to be illegal, but anything for our almighty corporate overlords I guess.
It's a horrific loophole 😭
Constitutionally legal through the 13th amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States..."
California has been using prison labor to fight wildfires since WW2. It's that tricky 13th Amendment that didn't actually ban slavery, only dictated when it is acceptable.
It's not just that in this case. Prison labor is indispensable for firefighting in California, the state has created total dependence. No prison labor, no firefighting. Depending on the year, there are 4000 inmates getting paid nothing. Each pro firefighter is paid ~$60k. It would bankrupt the state
Forcing it into the lexicon turns people away at a sorely needed time, especially Latinos. It actively disincentivizes exactly what the goal was: inclusivity.
This made me so goddamn mad. It doesn’t even personally affect the people who voted for or against it (in the very individual sense) but California fetishizes punishment.
Yeah. We Californians will elect people to the left of Mao, and hten turn around and approve propositions that legalize hunting the homeless for sport.
Tragic. I remember someone saying that the wording of the proposition when it was on the ballot might have been confusing, and we could have had the opposite outcome if worded differently. I didn't vote in CA so I don't know. What do you think?
?
There is no incorrect choice.
If you don't want to fight fires, you don't.
There are several respectable news articles on this if you'd care to deal in facts
Comments
I see a tragic waste of lives even in the existence of prisons for our human treasure
and a failure of civilization
The industry of slavery never ended in the United States
This is LITERALLY slavery
its also coercive, often dangerous, and pay and benefits are abysmal ofc.
This convo has spiraled way off topic and I'm done.
Have a good day.
And these are young people whose brains haven't even fully developed.
To be clear.
Or are you saying they shouldn't even be given a choice because they're incarcerated?
Even the fact of their incarceration has to do with a littany of policy choices that existed well before their conception.
So sending minorities to do a job they aren't allowed to do once they are released, for peanuts? Perfectly logical.
https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/conservation-camps/fire_camp_expungement/
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Teen Vogue, 2025: Smoke, Flames, and the Carceral State: Exposing U.S. Child Slavery
It reduces their sentence by something like 4-5x. AND many of them go into this as a career after. All the training & experience they get isn't worthless.
Could he do it ?
Could some of his insane Criminal minded Maga do it for him and his Hate to Harris ?
Yes 🔥🔥🔥🔥They could have make the fire
Slavery was never abolished, just renamed as prison labor
The Brits lost easy access to slave labour in America in 1776 so set up a “prison labour” camp in another bit of colonised land on 1788 away from the eyes of the abolitionists back at home.
The Brits tried to keep sending prison labourers & indentured servants to the US after revolution broke out, but they kept running away to join the revolution, so they stopped
Conversely there were 12 ex-US slaves on the 1st fleet that had joined the Brits against their masters
first things first. I don't tend to think they should or could be abolished. But the number of people we're incarcerating is criminal, as are conditions in US jails and prisons. Scandinavian countries - or at least Norway – have a better model. And it'd be nice to have mental institutions again.
Many (if not most) can't be EMT certified, because of their convictions, and so are barred from being hired by most fire depts.
https://www.davispoliticalreview.com/article/the-use-of-inmate-firefighters-and-its-injustices
It’s fucked. I hate it here.
There are designated investigative officers, who have arrest powers, but not everyday firefighters.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&division=&title=3.&part=2.&chapter=4.5.&article=
"Allowed to get expunged" is not the same as "able to get a job when they get out"; because the expungment is work, and discretionary
There is no rational basis for "have you had two misdemeanor convictions" to bar one from being an EMT.
I know who to avoid and who deserves a well deserved f off.
When I was in a more “liberal” city I was treated better but when I needed them I got dropped hard. Made me realize I was the diversity hire.
Politicians are known for lying and I'd never thought of it until now, but that is a horrible precedent that we just let slide because "all politicians lie"
Something that is the norm that never should have become the norm.
Liberals when trans person is homeless or a minor or both: >:(
Data over vibes.
child slavery still exists in the US!
Only way is down in next decade. Complete collapse coming. Once trump fails what then? Dems aren’t upto it either.
Woke or maga? Both a disaster
Clearly our increased funding to LAPD has been sooooo helpful, she says while turning on a flashlight because of copper wire theft...
What a disgusting country America is.
13th amendment loophole that keeps slavery around is the right way to say it, I think.
Slavery never ended. It just morphed to be out of sight.
😑😑😑😑😑😑😑
#Yup.
We still should, you know, pay them decently and massively reform the justice system, but it's a step.
https://www.davispoliticalreview.com/article/the-use-of-inmate-firefighters-and-its-injustices
You're right Mr. Baldwin, the state is innocent in this, this is very humane.
/s
Children in state custody should never be put in dangerous situations, even if they want it. Better a hundred homes burn than one child gets hurt or worse.
Risking your life so you can have some money to live inside is not the same as volunteering and heading home to your stocked fridge and comfortable home.
https://bsky.app/profile/jnxouaquaga.bsky.social/post/3l2fxptrzij2z
would be an accurate headline
Why is Wintour still letting the lunatics run the asylum here?
They're slaves, brah.
PLEASE just call me a beaner instead - it's less obtuse and gets the same point across lmao.
Anytime someone says "At the end of the civil war slavery was abolished."
Hit them with the "Slavery was abolished.*"
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adamserwer/some-lawyers-just-want-to-see-the-world-burn
Where do you all get this shit
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/11/california-prop-6-fails
What the hell is wrong with this country???
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/14/1219187249/prisoners-are-suing-alabama-over-forced-labor-calling-it-a-form-of-slavery
Constitutionally legal through the 13th amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States..."
Be consistent. Or better yet, stop forcing bullshit language policing that is making us lose elections.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/09/12/latinx-awareness-has-doubled-among-u-s-hispanics-since-2019-but-only-4-percent-use-it/
There is no incorrect choice.
If you don't want to fight fires, you don't.
There are several respectable news articles on this if you'd care to deal in facts