“There’s no such thing as ‘Rejoin’. There’s not some fast-track ‘We made a mistake! Do-over! Do-over!'
There is only ‘Join’ and it takes years of hard work at the best of times.”
Not what many of you want to hear, I'm sure. But hear it, you need to. #Brexit
There is only ‘Join’ and it takes years of hard work at the best of times.”
Not what many of you want to hear, I'm sure. But hear it, you need to. #Brexit
Reposted from
Quiet Riot
🆕 Quiet Riot: Sunday School
🇪🇺 KEIR'S BIG EURO-RESET 🇪🇺
@sturdyalex.bsky.social & @pimlicat.bsky.social (yay! she's back!) untangle some very mixed signals from gov't, about what future it really wants with the EU.
APPLE: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/q...
SPOTIFY: open.spotify.com/episode/2eGZ...
🇪🇺 KEIR'S BIG EURO-RESET 🇪🇺
@sturdyalex.bsky.social & @pimlicat.bsky.social (yay! she's back!) untangle some very mixed signals from gov't, about what future it really wants with the EU.
APPLE: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/q...
SPOTIFY: open.spotify.com/episode/2eGZ...
Comments
OTOH maybe the EU could reformulate the article 50 rules, e.g. to specify that a supermajority in a referendum is needed?
But someone in the political world needs to start to come clean about the benefits and the real reason inequality is growing on steroids.
Currency debasement in the form of inflation, not immigration
What we should do is ANNUL the crooked referendum result.
And we can if we want to.
No, this doesn’t mean people shouldn’t campaign and beseech gov policy but it does mean people should be aware of the negative impact on their own ideals when a vote goes awry.
first have to want to be part of the EU, which is different from just wanting to enjoy the benefits of membership.
The hard work is convincing enough people that being part of a united Europe is better than any possible alternative.
We, as a country, need to regain the trust of the EU after what's happened since 2016.
Hopefully, we can re-establish ourselves as a country in the near future.
https://bsky.app/profile/geoffreyharris.bsky.social/post/3l33ffvlzyk2p
We are only one half of a negotiation. The weaker half.
And still, we can smooth and speed things by conceding on whatever fronts EU wishes. Anyone who doesn't like those concessions: blame Brexiters
And we'll still be better off than by not doing so
A govt propping up the Brexit lie ("make it work") and pandering to Brexiters doesn't project trustworthiness/stability
Start the process!
Start convincing the Tories!
If you went back to OGWN you'd be rejoining that old gang.
Plus as a political slogan Rejoin echoes Remain & provides continuity.
There needs to be honesty & clarity about what the ultimate goal is.
Mine is to fully rejoin the institutions of the EU & to restore the 4 freedoms.
Others want to find a fudge which will alleviate the pain enough 1/2
Some people say we should creep back but by bit whilst all the time denying that's what we're doing.
I think that's fundamentally dishonest & takes the electorate for fools.
That attitude was what fatally undermined Cameron's 2016 campaign
#Rejoin #FBPE
We didn't 'unwind' out of the EU did we?
You can't just pick a random word beginning with 're' and build a serious argument based on the words sounding a bit similar.
Listen if don't want to campaign to Rejoin then don't.
Go and start a campaign to do something else not beginning 're'
But I think everyone knew that already?
Joining will take time - ten years from start to finish at best & there will be a lot of negotiation & horse trading along the way.
We might even need to give the Greeks their marbles back - but I'd say that would be a mutual benefit, not a barrier.
* good to know Ottocorrect is just as busy here!
We were members and wish to be again. We joined in 1973 and will rejoin in 20??
No-one I know expects an easy ride...
But yet, that’s exactly what Brexiteers did, started their campaign on June 6, 1975.
Maybe a fudge could be found, ‘associate membership’ or similar?
First the Copenhagen Criteria, then the acquis communautaire.
But this is definitely fantasy politics
Else why has UK politics moved steadily Right depite old reactionaries dying off - for decades?
Also in 2016 the status quo was being in the EU. In 2024 it is being outside. Many adopt status quo by default (not just fans of 5-bar boogie!)
The EU's complaint has - for four decades, actually - been the UK's exceptionalism, its lack of understanding of the framework of rules, its constant self-indulgent sucking of the oxygen.
On average, 5 years from application to negotiations, then 5 years of negotiations to acceptance
Preceded by years of talks, that's if there is a political will
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/how-new-member-states-join-the-eu-all-you-need-to-know/
In what other areas of life would you allow white supremacists to have a veto?
Plus there are other EU countries like Sweden who haven't joined the Euro & never will. It's a long term aspiration, not set in stone.
I hope you’re right but I would like to see it restored for my grandchildren sooner rather than later.
You tell us, tell us gooood.
Didn't see leave suffering with pessimism. 30 years until they got what they wanted (even then they're not happy) and thats what we will do if we have too.
The right on the rise, a hostile press, Tory MPs ex, or otherwise thinking they still run the show and a Labour government that seems, well, a little tory.
We haven't a lot going for us.
Leave us alone to hope, will ya.
Unlike Brexiters we're not the jingoistic exceptionalists remember?
I think whatever the root back we need to be up front & honest about what we want the final destination to be.
SM & even CU validate the Brexiters claim we'd be rule-takers, not makers
We need to settle that here first before we can approach the EU to discuss anything.
Some people seem to think there's a half-in-half out SM only sweet spot. That would mean being a rule-taker. Farage would make mincemeat of that in a Referendum.
Exceptionalism cuts across the political spectrum, it's embedded into the culture of the UK.
Personally I think Starmer recognises this.
I think for Starmer to realise it we'll have to be a constant thorn in his side, hold his feet to the fire and give him a Chinese burn.
He's shown he can change his mind in response to public pressure before.
Try the Lib Dems.
They'll be talking to exactly the same people as Labour are.
It will also depend on how the EU develops.
Germany's influence shouldn't be exaggerated, but if Germany for the next nine years is dominated by pro-Russian/anti-EU sentiments, Great Britain will be very low on the agenda.
Personally I think this a politically impossible ask so long as there is a global migration crisis - which is as long as we have a climate crisis - ie no end is in sight
Realism is the first step toeward progress
Net migration in the UK hasn't changed more than ±1% in over a hundred years.
https://ferdi.fr/dl/df-Zk26mfKfrFAbx6eLN4wnhGRa/ferdi-p223-global-migration-in-the-20th-and-21st-centuries-the-unstoppable.pdf
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/history-of-immigration
They were happy to take Farage & co's wet dream on board & stand alongside them in the anti-crowd.
It's up to us to pick it up and then ask our friends if we can play footie again if we play nice.
Then it's in their court to decide if they want to.
Despite being English myself I can be quite anti-English, but tend to try and hide it.
Otherwise criticism that we are rule takers without any democratic input into laws applied here are entirely valid.
As a temporary form of purgatory the public could stomach that.
As a final destination - not.
They'd change tactics under PR.
I get the impression that behind the scenes Starmer and Davey do talk.
If there are more businesses or jobs we can get then we should.
It’s just taking lemons and making lemonade.
It shouldn’t be about punishment though. That would do more harm than any gains would warrant.
For my part I think the EU “should” be hesitant to take the UK.
In practice I think they might be more willing than I’d like.
Ratification might be tricky though.
Some UK businesses have relocated.
Things still haven’t “settled” after Brexit. Let them settle.
The irony is fixing Brexit is the biggest thing Labour could do but the last thing it has bandwidth for.
Come on Alex, put your talents to better use.
Let's get the band back together, we're waiting for you guys 🇪🇺 😎
There is no requirement for national referendums about the accession of new countries - there wasn't when Czechia or Slovakia joined.
In any case welcoming the UK back to the fold is of mutual benefit to all in the EU, especially in the face of Putin, China & Trump
And btw UK doesn’t hold the upper hand
I agree with your sentiments, however things in the EU will have moved on, we have to catch up.
The clock is ticking…
You have to apply when there is, at least, a chance of a "yes".
An application that would be rejected by one single EU-country would be counterproductive and foster enmity instead of unity.
The debate in Britain must develop from what's best for me? to what's best for us?, with 'us' equals Europe, so the British must first see themselves as Europeans.
In reality, I would be very surprised if the UK rejoins within 20 years.
This was part of the Tories' scorched earth policy and Sir Keir is all in, and unfortunately, so are his minions if #PlymouthUK MPs are any example.
#SEZ #freeport #Dartmoor #LukePollardMP
Yeah, I voted Remain
"Please accept this as the UK's formal request to become a candidate country the second you consider we deserve it."
The EU would be wasting their energy to entertain it until it was UK political consensus. So a long haul.
It'll be, there's our terms, take it or leave it.
When you get used to the racist pain in the arse neighbour buggering off you’re under no obligation to try and be nice anymore.
How so many Labour supporters can pretend to be so vehemently anti-austerity yet say "meh" to Starmer's red lines depresses me.
The parlous state of UK finances is, and will continue to be, in large part due to trading friction with our biggest, nearest partners. The time and work will have to be spent in constant negotiations with the EU anyway. Put it to concrete use rather than sticking plasters.
skills you describe are not part of the requirements a country needs to fulfil before an application is even considered.
The points I made aren't extreme but simple facts and many more can be added.
The UK needs to do a lot of soul searching and ground work....
I reluctantly concluded we won't rejoin until Tories are the ones proposing it, which will only happen if they get pummelled again in 4 years and go back to centre.
By then things will have moved on for:
US trade deal
EU internal squabbles over FoM
Maybe an outer orbit EU
It is sentencing us to markedly longer hardship than is otherwise necessary
I think it is impertinent to say the least.
https://bsky.app/profile/sturdyalex.bsky.social/post/3l33wwpbhn22c
It is very clear to me that the EU expects us to demonstrate proper adherence to Treaties.
Why should we be trusted with any easements if we cannot comply?
So OF COURSE Starmer must prioritise that.
"Rejoining" the EU is therefore a meaningful term for the reversal of the Brexit disaster. 1/2
10 years for England to reconcile itself to its error and to ask the question and 10 years for France to say "No".
* and many aren’t there yet, as Stay Out leapfrogging (re)join when € question is asked shows.
Until Westminster is stable England cannot be allowed back in
However…
OED
“Origin uncertain; perhaps < Welsh adj., on account of alleged dishonesty of Welsh people
Sometimes considered offensive in view of the conjectured connection with Welsh people.”
Then your partner says “Fuck off, I hate you” & dissolves the partnership.
Your business continues to thrive.
Fast forward, your erstwhile partner says “Oops, mistake, let’s get together again.” 🤨
Why would you welcome them back?
They might not like the way the path the leavers have taken the UK (even before the referendum) but I think they know that Europe is better with the UK in the EU rather than outside it.
I suspect that by the time the Tories are close to getting back in power their mood to membership will have changed somewhat as the 'elderly Brexit support' will literally be dying out.