lots of americans understand how their healthcare system is fucked up but if americans collectively understood just how fucked up their healthcare system is compared with other countries there would be a revolution tomorrow
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It's also part of the misinformation ecosphere of America, where people's individual experience of the healthcare system is terrible but they still believe we have the best healthcare in the world. Like how they hate Congress but still re-elect their own Congressperson who they believe is great.
Even how fucked up it is compared to past American healthcare system. Like I'm pretty sure I pay more now, have a higher deductible, and that's ok because the company's healthcare provider has a special tax deductible savings account I can use?
the status quo appears to be in no danger since it's apparently impossible for the average American to learn anything valuable, even from personal experience
I had to go to the hospital in China once and despite my broken Chinese they had me diagnosed w the right antibiotics in hand in about 45 minutes. An emergency room in the US could NEVER!!
You summed up the problem of Americans. Uneducated, unwilling to educate themselves, easier to blame others for our misfortunes and conditions of our lives instead of fighting the long fight.
US is heavily propagandized to believe, somehow, our system is still better than other countries. Have you heard about the wait lists for care in Canada? The horror.
At my doctor's office the other day, heard a woman trying to get her some at college in as a new patient during the holidays. She was shocked to hear the first new patient appointment is in March.
I think the main problem is that amerikans are not willing to go out and get shot by the police to improve health care like disabled folks went up on the hall of Congress and blockaded it with wheelchairs to get the ADA
when capitalist parties in the EU work to undermine our healthcare systems so they can privatise them piece by piece, our fear is becoming like the US. your system is our standard for the worst things could be
Yeah The US system is, and since a long time, the thing people & politicians point to to rightfully scare the public.
Even in casual conversations with normies you will get the "I hope it don't get as bad as the Ricains".
Fun fact: I teach philosophy in Finland and in our Ethics and Social Philosophy courses the curriculum literally uses the US as an example society of “aren’t we glad it isn’t like this”
Must be interesting, given that Finland's population is 5.5 million and USA's population is 300 million. I suspect that societal complexy increases as populations increase.
Im American and my wife is british. My in-laws were chatting with my mom, complaining about the nhs and wishing for privatization they got enough horror stories from our side of the pond to change their opinion (until Nigel farage changes it back again)
The great problem with convincing anyone of any sort of reality is there's some greedy shit weasel ready to tell a more romantic and fantastic story, so the average schmuck never has to accept the uncomfortable reality. It's always some nefarious group sapping their success.
I am planning a trip to the US. Multiple people have told me to get travel insurance in case anything happens while visiting, because everyone knows that their healthcare system could kill you worse than any injury. That's how bad it is.
Nobody in the US actually cares about free market capitalism. Except like the Cato Inst anti-tariff free worker migration stuff. Because free markets. Social Security and FHA are popular because they were designed for white people. "Socialism" as an insult has nothing to do with socialism or markets
I'll never get over how confused and bewildered Canadians were during the ACA fight under Obama. Like "what's a government death panel?" and then they describe health insurance deliberately canceling paying for your care, as opposed to what they do *now*
The USA is always a worst case scenario when talking about health systems. It's like at every level (except training, which is apparently really good) they did the opposite of the thing with the best results
US citizen here. It is an awful system, but the US acts like poverty is a moral failing. It's not the country's fault you can't afford the 5k ambulance ride to the 500$ ER bed, alongside the 300$ painkillers put in you, alongside the 300/month prescription for them now that you've gotten addicted.
Why? there hasn't been a revolution over gun laws even after school after school has lost children. There hasn't been a revolution over Black people being targeted, incarcerated, and murdered by police. I think Americans like to bitch about things and then shrug their shoulder's and say 'oh well'.
That's nice to say but Americans are by and large one of the most cowed people on the planet when it comes to doing any kind of political violence. They could charge us to breathe air and 90% of the population would choke to death before doing anything past feckless "peaceful protest"
Ever since I have been alive, there has been a desperate push from US conservative media to highlight issues of other medical systems to distract from how we are regularly sentenced to death in the name of profit.
my mom literally admitted to me she took my dad to korea for better healthcare, but yet STILL moved back to the states... AND NOW THEY ARE GOING TO GUAM APPARENTLY TO LIVE OUT THEIR DAYS.
i dont talk to them anymore. they tried kidnapping me and bringing me to guam with them.
Part of the problem is that enough people have health insurance through their employer that’s just barely affordable that they don’t feel the pressure bad enough
I moved from the US to Ireland—one of the most conservative healthcare systems in the EU—and the difference was stunning. My daughter was in the hospital for a week, and mid-week they sat me down to warn me there would be a fee... maybe as much as €500. I was sleep deprived enough to laugh.
Our corporate fascist M$M noise machine immediately and dutifully attempted to pin it on some anonymous Illegal Immigrant™ but when they didn't work they pivoted to "Well there are so many in NYC that the polic can't do their jobs!".
A shocking number of americans like it this way because they believe that healthcare is a privilage and they'll be damned if anybody they have been convinced are freeloaders aren't punished
An American friend of mine has been working in Ireland the last 6 years. When I found out she wasn't on the company health insurance I was like "why?" and she just shrugged and said, I can go to any hospital in this country and pay out of pocket and it will not bankrupt me. Fair enough.
FWIW, I'm on Medicaid in New York State and I love it. I never have to pay for medications or doctor's visits. I fear what the incoming administration is going to do with it, though.
No, no, no. Death Panels are extremely inefficient. Why have multiple people decide someone's fate when one person can deny coverage just as easily? Hell, in a few year's time, AI may have progressed far enough that they can deny people coverage without employing anyone to do so at all!
Yeah but why pay taxes for other people to get free healthcare when i can pay insane deductbles and also pay copays on like half of everything i need anyways. Checkmate liberal.
the weird apologia I’ve seen is that the US has the best specialist high end care. which I don’t think is even true any more, and kinda severely misses the point of what a society needs a health care system for. having the most Michelin star restaurants doesn’t solve starvation.
Jesus Christ. When I visited Australia I got a walk-in appointment where I had to wait all of five minutes, then go for a test next door. Easy access, less cost than my usual copay, and good doctors and techs (who kept asking me if the stories re: U.S. healthcare were true). Fuck the U.S. system.
As a Canadian, we bitch and moan about our health care (it can be bad). But nothing is more unifying than when we sense something that will turn it more like the American system. It unites common Canadian’s of all political views.
There's no equivalent of Unite or anything close to it. Recently there was a push to unionise videogame workers and when (European) people suggested that the efforts may be better placed getting universal rights to cover all workers? The people involved acted as if it was impossiblity.
Family Medical Leave Act.
Technically applies to taking time for your own health or the health of any of your immediate family.
And also applies only to business that employ 50+ people.
And you have to explicitly tell your employer you're using it.
as far as I can tell it's funded by deductions from your paycheck
I have not been able to determine in what way (if at all) any portion of the benefit isn't just your own money being taken from you and then given back
There's no federally mandated paid sick leave.
We have unpaid sick leave across the country, and 18 states (out of fucking fifty 🤬) have laws that require paid sick leave, but the *absolute bare minimum,* under most circumstances, you can't get fired for missing work due to illness.
It’s wild how many people celebrating and cracking jokes very likely consistently vote to keep those people in power and making money. They’re angry at a system they can’t stop themselves from perpetuating.
Oh yeah sure look I’m not a Democrat or whatever. I just think it’s fascinating to imagine the mind of someone who becomes angry when they think about universal healthcare being available to everyone and who also hates healthcare companies. Yeesh.
I always find it so unrealistic when people in US TV shows just call an ambulance, get their tonsils/appendix out or give birth in a hospital like it's not financially ruinous.
Was watching a BBC show (can't remember which) where the main character ended up injured & hospitalized. She was treated, released, & that was it for that part of the story. I told my husband that had that been a US show, there would've to have been at least some hand wringing about unexpected costs
It's not like we've been yelling about this for 15 years or even longer...
Since Bernie Sanders became a national figure, it's what he's been hammering out to the public and yet the Dems keep fucking pivoting to the right and trying to court "moderate" Republicans.
The “it takes months and years to get treatment” and “you get lower quality treatment in a universal system” lies are so pervasive in this country people will never understand.
i'm not super familiar with what's going on in the UK but i've seen vague talk of you guys moving to privatize and move towards something like what we've got over here. is that true? if so i am so sorry
A tip about Euro politics is that if there is a country where healthcare isn't fully privatized there is a continuous movement (and vague talk) about privatizing everything from the usual suspects.
there's a long ongoing political project to sabotage the NHS in order to justify increased privatisation, it sucks. they can't come out and say it, but that's the aim
The same is happening in Canada currently. People complain about the state of healthcare, and the government just quietly gestures towards increased privatization as the only solution they could possibly offer and shrugs 🤷♂️
Isn't Alberta already testing a private healthcare system and it has all the same problems as our current system, but you pay hundreds to thousands of dollars? I hope Albertains have the wherewithal to realize they are being grifted on.
Albertans are unfortunately historically fiends for being grifted on repeatedly as long as they get to “own the libs” in their mind so there’s no telling if it will be successful or not
Dealing with a neighbour who thinks if they privatize healthcare in Canada he's going to get a big cut on his taxes. I don't even know how to talk to these people anymore, they're just willfully stupid.
It is very difficult to find common ground with people whose very existence hinges upon personal tax breaks and owning the libs, it requires the patience of a saint
It's really something that, in the US, we look at the NHS for how our system could be better, you in the UK look at our system as an example of how bad it can get, and both your major political parties are like "what if we tried just a little bit of the horrible stuff?"
i wouldn't say it's anything like what we have over here cuz we don't just have privatized healthcare we have a uniquely terrible system that you could not recreate if you tried, but yeah the nhs has been under attack for decades
the one positive thing i have to say about US healthcare is that unlike in the UK, if you live in a blue state, you can likely get access to informed consent gender affirming care. everyone i know in the UK is on DIY HRT because i guess the NHS is just not doing trans care
no they are doing it, it just takes them sooooo long for each patient because it's all just soooo complicated and they struggle to understand it all. most doctors don't even get past understanding pronouns.
there's private providers that do cover hrt but they're pretty hard to access just cuz private insurance in the uk is just super niche in general, i'm very all in on single payer models but coverage for controversial services is the single caveat idk how to address with policy that i have
i mean, here we just threaten to jail the doctors if they provide a service that the government decides it doesnt like. not like our system is uniquely resiliant those same politics. if youre skipping the NHS over there i dont even see why bother paying a private clinic when DIY would be way cheaper
we are years away - if ever - from having an insurance model, we're going for just allowing private companies to buy up the NHS and has us pay them directly from our taxes which are the highest they've ever been
People weirdly seem ambivalent to that as long as there isn't a literal bill to pay
That said, there are lobbyists who do want us to have an insurance model, and are working to make that a reality. It's just there being careful about it because it would be a riots-in-every-street situation if they don't ease us slowly towards it.
don't get me wrong i understand that this is really bad, but it's relieving to hear you're at least not currently moving towards an insurance model. not yet anyway. under no circumstances should you allow that to happen.
there's a reason the tories didn't do it even though they had 14 years in charge and they really really wanted to - the backdoor privatising seems to work for the companies and the politicians. sucks but i sincerely doubt we'll be pulling healthcare from people which is what insurance model would do
it’s certain to stay free to use as long as any mainstream party is in power, but politicians have been talking about “””cutting costs””” by taking on more private contractors (which has been happening for a long time)
Reminds me of a student protest in Ireland a couple years ago during my semester abroad. The protesters considered an annual cost of €3,000 for higher education to be outrageous, and I sat there, with my $70k+ annual tuition, and thought, “Hell yeah, please don’t become like us.”
Yep. My mother died from breast cancer when I was a teen, after being afraid of getting treatment due to cost. Now I’m in between insurance and haven’t gone to get a mammogram until it kicks in, despite having some pain this month. It’s depressing and I’m angry it’s this way
most people here don't really even know how much they actually pay every year in premiums because it's all concealed through employer coverage deals & networks & such subterfuge. If they knew the figure compared to what they then still pay per visit vs what they get....
Of course, they also don't really know how much lower their own salary is because of this secret figure, or what their coworkers' or industry salaries are, for that matter.
But they definitely know how much they pay in state & federal income taxes because, by law, they need to do a yearly paperwork puzzle to reach a secret figure that the government & their employer already basically already know, and if they get it wrong, it's fines or jail
A lot of Americans think the difference in systems evens out because we pay higher taxes. I've compared actual numbers with a few of them, and every time their premium alone was higher than the total tax they'd pay over here on the same income.
yes the US system is both one of the worst (in terms of clinical outcomes) and the most expensive (both nationally and in terms of individual payers)
US healthcare companies have gotten very good at doing the only thing that any private company exists to do: make the most money with the least effort
Imagine the horror that the ACA caps those profits at 15%. Medicare and Medicaid have overhead costs of 3%. I don't understand how people who call themselves fiscal conservatives aren't beating a path to universal healthcare.
Our childbirth took five days and cost us around 50$ including hot meals. Now we are scared for our lives because we apparantly live in a socialist country. (Sweden)
I wonder what their reaction would be to the information that in Russia, which is a country that is considered third world by most Americans, health care is free and you don't need to be afraid to call a doctor
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Maternal_mortality_ratio_per_100%2C000_live_births.png/800px-Maternal_mortality_ratio_per_100%2C000_live_births.png
Even in casual conversations with normies you will get the "I hope it don't get as bad as the Ricains".
/sarcasm
https://youtu.be/Dt31nhleeCg?si=V7jvNjhH4B-sLX6S
i dont talk to them anymore. they tried kidnapping me and bringing me to guam with them.
Suffering is holy, caring for fellow humans is communism as the American saying goes.
Totally different perspectives.
(Full disclosure, the Irish health care system sucks, but at least it's cheap)
Unlike now, where we have death panels!
Not a bullet point of much value when I'm making travel plans but YMMV :/
You couldn't make up that it's called the FMLA (Fuck My Life Act?)
Technically applies to taking time for your own health or the health of any of your immediate family.
And also applies only to business that employ 50+ people.
And you have to explicitly tell your employer you're using it.
Yeah it's crap.
I have not been able to determine in what way (if at all) any portion of the benefit isn't just your own money being taken from you and then given back
(In the 50s and 60s bosses also liked to fire women if they got married! Or if they weighed too much!)
We have unpaid sick leave across the country, and 18 states (out of fucking fifty 🤬) have laws that require paid sick leave, but the *absolute bare minimum,* under most circumstances, you can't get fired for missing work due to illness.
Since Bernie Sanders became a national figure, it's what he's been hammering out to the public and yet the Dems keep fucking pivoting to the right and trying to court "moderate" Republicans.
Which Republicans are also hell-bent on destroying.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/november-19-1945-harry-truman-calls-national-health-insurance-program
Me, being uninsured for 5+ years: Am I a joke to you?
Meanwhile countries with 100% socialized medicine are doing the best
I think conservatives pretty much everywhere are trying to americanise their healthcare systems
People weirdly seem ambivalent to that as long as there isn't a literal bill to pay
I'm not saying I won't be wrong, I just think it would be such a huge change that it would never happen. Wouldn't be surprised to see GP fees though
In the UK the public health insurance was introduced on the recommendation of capitalists.
It was cheaper for everyone.
And if they read actual socio-economic and political history in school, things would be different.
Public education is the bedrock of democracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNghg1Y-WIc
US healthcare companies have gotten very good at doing the only thing that any private company exists to do: make the most money with the least effort
Oh, right. It's the socialism. 🙄