Nvidia doesn't compete with deepseek though. In fact, any AI model ever will require a graphics card, and it will almost always be an Nvidia graphics card.
Not true, it just means you can train deepseek faster / run more deepseek models in parallel. I understand what you're saying though, that the demand for more power for most users will reduce - I just don't think we're at that point yet, unfortunately.
Maybe NVIDIA is now closer to its real value. In any case, better now than in a near future when the bubble explodes and brings down the whole economy. NVIDIA will certainly survive.
Oh, i think they will be fine. They know they have been overhyped and I think they have been pretty open about it. They can scale back production a lot better than the AI companies can undo everything they did.
...and they will lose a ton more yet. This isn't Sputnik, Marc Andreessen - this is akin to the Indian space efforts; similar results at 1/1000th the price. This is a deathblow to AI tech valuations. Now, weren't Tesla pivoting to something? Can't quite remember.......
Tesla are supposedly pivoting to robots and robotaxi. The first makes sense as they can consume their own product immediately. The latter requires gov't approval and is more of a long shot.
Good its about time there were other options for graphics cards on the market. Those guys were doing too much corporate inbreeding. I wanna Soundblaster ColorExplosion 42069 with drivers for Windows Cacophony Edition.
I don't understand this line of thought, what am i missing? nvidia isnt producing llm's it produces the hardware they run on, if anything deepseeks popularity should help nvidia.
The thinking is that people will want less processing power because it is more efficient. But I agree with your position. People will do far more AI because it is cheaper, so nvidia actually to gain.
It's about scale and contacts over time. Everyone has invested huge amounts into massive GPU compute farms to train and run this and the next gen AI stuff from open AI and others. Those models take many times the processing power as what was just unveiled from China, which reportedly can do 1/2
lots on regular consumer-grade hardware. That's basically saying "the big players don't know what they're doing, and the future of AI might not need the hardware being designed for next gen big AI workloads". Yeah it still runs on Nvidia, but maybe it means massively less costly Nvidia contracts.
this is the most reasonable answer to me, the market is definitely over inflated and its only a matter of time we see a collapse if this was not it. Though that's not to say i think it will bottom out, but probably drop to a more realistic value.
It’s about how much less power and hardware Deepseek allegedly used to train their models. If their models perform better than Chat GPT and used less resources to produce, that means less demand for NVDA’s hardware.
It could only do that by training on the output of better models. sure you can run it on cheaper hardware, the 18b model i can run comfortably on my system, however the forefront of ai is still going to need those chips. it doesnt make sense that deepseek would effect nvidias bottom line to me.
this i can agree with, the market is over inflated and id happily bet on the bubble "popping". Nvidia will still be sitting comfortably though regardless of whatever losses they face, their position in the market is arguably monopolistic.
Yes. Crazy!
But… as I understand it, losses are only losses to the sellers who sell when price is lower than when they bought it, right?
If you hold onto it, ride out the storm, one’s investment is worth whatever market value is…. Until and only when you actually sell.
Elsewise, it’s just noise
I mean they're just fucking with us now. Just saw Nvidia is headquartered in CA. Anybody else think this is the latest in an intentional campaign to tank CA and Silicon Valley, or is that too conspiracy theory-y.
Stock markets are meant to be guided by competitive market forces. Not by a few billionaires decades old successful ideas desperate to stay on top.
The Chinese strategy to educate their population will continue to create market corrections whether the fascists want it to or not.
Yeah but they were literally the most valuable company in the world for exactly one reason, and now that reason has at least been convincingly challenged.
To be clear, once it's installed a lot of distros would probably work (although good luck with the average user not breaking something with all the control Linux gives them)
It's the install that'll get average users to just get a mac or Chromebook
The main reason why windows keep the market:
* it is already installed when you by the computer
* school teached you how to use it
Today, a lot of linux distribution are simpler to install than windows (especially if you want an offline / non bloated one), and may provide a better user experience
It would if developers wrote more games for native Linux. Gaming is really the only thing Windows still has a leg up on Linux. But games which run native on Linux run better than the same games native on Windows.
Gamers would lead the charge in the transition to open source.
The Steam Deck is going a good job of running Windows-specific games on Linux. Such a good job that it is leaving Windows-based handheld competitors in the dust.
Sorry, the point wasn't actually about open source specifically, but about Linux, which is open source. Open source actually makes it far easier for developers to build better games when they're not writing against a black box like Microsoft. And they don't need to beg Linux for fixes they need.
I agree. Especially now with steam runtime, it's easier for developers to avoid dependency hell unlike before but gamers are like a herd. I use linux myself and love it. But you severely underestimate how much FOMO an avg gamer has.
This is one way to get more performance out of the game and OS. Also, Linux uses far fewer resources to keep the system secure and running smoothly, which also increases performance of the games. This is why Valve ported their Source engine to Linux: just to prove this point.
Last May I decided that I would teach myself how the stock market worked by buying a well-performing stock (knowing nothing of the politics behind nvidia) and BOY HOWDY today was the conclusion to that lesson.
TLDR; Company in China released a new generative AI that can run on conventional CPUs without increasing power demand, and made it open source.
nVidia has been the sole provider of AI specialty chipsets but now with this new AI it kills the need for specialty hardware that they've been hyping up.
Because everyone thought AI was going to be process intensive and require these crazy GPUs only Nvidia could provide, and then China released DeepSeek, and it can run on-device at a fraction of the power. Meaning OpenAI's just isn't efficient, it's not an inherent problem
If the best example of how a bubble won't burst is an under regulated environment popularized almost exclusively by grifters, scammers, thieves, extortionists, and fascists then sign me up for that bubble burst.
Also, not when they can't hold their wealth in simple money. If the money supply is inflating, that money flows to assets.
It's basic math.
If money is cheap, everything gets expensive.
The fact that despite that loss it still has a market cap that is 20% higher than Amazon - the company that you have to buy half of all your stuff from - really boggles my mind.
Just as I note- I stopped shopping at Amazon more than a year ago now. If I don't want it bad enough to go to the store, I probably don't really want it. I kinda stopped buying things that weren't groceries, and am instead traveling more often. Not advice, and not pratical for everyone for sure.
Same here, but Amazon set the expectation of same day delivery. If I want something specialized, I will also go directly to that business, and just wait the 3-5 days to ship it.
When small car manufacturer Tesla #10 by volume in the US is somehow worth more than GM and Toyota you know they are basically just making shit up on wall street.
Love to see it. The best part is it's like, imaginary money. The foundations upon which the economy is based, the stuff that keeps us all able to engage in it, is fake.
Those Nvidia chips are still able to their work, don't they? So Nvidia will remain a profitable company, just that it will be not able to charge monopoly prices. Which, if I remember correctly from Econ 101 homework, actually optimizes the gains of the economy as a whole.
So, good news. Am I wrong?
napkin math says since Friday open it’s about 3/4 a trillion, pretty good for a mousepad company. Good thing none of the big index funds were holding too mu- hang on a second,
US Politicians & Tech billionaires losing BIG money on stocks is hilarious. I’m here for it. 👍 And Donald thought he was doing something announcing 500 billion AI investment. 😂😂😂
This is obviously the fault of the tech industry in not coming up with a new fad in time, where's the next crypto mining or generative AI to soak up ludicrous amounts of compute power?
Nvidia is panicking because their gig is up. Their super expensive GPUs that are power hungry just got dumped because it turns out they aren't needed for AI. Which was the driving force behind it. No reason to buy an excavator when a shovel is all you needed for a fence post.
The real people nervous about this are OpenAI investors.
Perhaps not even Sam Altman because he's said before that OpenAI is going to lose money like crazy. So he probably has his millions squirreled away somewhere.
it’s pretty fascinating that trumps gambit was “we will tariff you 25%” and the response is basically “look what happens to your market leaders when news gets out that we do the same thing for 1% of the cost”
Wouldn’t surprise me if China was lying just so it could short nvidia and other AI stocks, or otherwise just as a shot across the bow to Trump on how they can disrupt the stock market.
This stuff always intrigues me. They have exactly the same resources. They're selling exactly the same stuff at the same price, and so making exactly the same profit. The only people who've lost anything are people who gamble on share prices.
I would genuinely like to know why this is important.
Be thankful it was only hocus pocus imaginary Foney Munny™ used to propagate an abusive stock market for the sole purpose of boosting an economic system impossible to sustain so stock holders can reap millions before betting on its failure.
I'd give this time. Remember the Huawei phone they released a little bit back? Made it out like it would end iPhone. Turned out it was hot garbage. Probably stolen ip and made a cheaper shittier version. Watch china observer on youtube for truth about china. There not doing good at all.
Sounds like a market adjustment to me. Because what are stocks but play money for the rich. And what else do graphics card have in common with our current regime? Crypto currency. This is all a farce. Nvidia isnt going anywhere.
Value is real, it's what workers produce through their labor. Money is the physical analogue we use to track value; The money paid to workers is what the company considers their share of the value produced.
I said “imo” as in “in my opinion” so it is true that my opinion is ChatGPT is vastly superior. Happy to be proved wrong. Ask it about the Chinese government and see what you get, it’s very controlled with deep bias
When you buy a share of a company, you own a small sliver of it.
The 15% is off the total value of Nvidia which is calculated as the price of one share times all the Nvidia shares.
Nvidia isn't going anywhere and I highly doubt they were surprised by the market correction. That said, a half trillion is a lot. I can't even count that high
People have been operating on the assumption that AI had to use a billion of NVidia's most expensive chips. If DeepSix shows how to do this with lesser chips, it could cut into NVidia's sales.
Comments
I’m OK with it
But… as I understand it, losses are only losses to the sellers who sell when price is lower than when they bought it, right?
If you hold onto it, ride out the storm, one’s investment is worth whatever market value is…. Until and only when you actually sell.
Elsewise, it’s just noise
The Chinese strategy to educate their population will continue to create market corrections whether the fascists want it to or not.
It's the install that'll get average users to just get a mac or Chromebook
* it is already installed when you by the computer
* school teached you how to use it
Today, a lot of linux distribution are simpler to install than windows (especially if you want an offline / non bloated one), and may provide a better user experience
Gamers would lead the charge in the transition to open source.
I used to do network engineering for a decade before I switched to software engineering. Corporate feet-dragging is almost a bragging right to them.
almost 700 billion in valuation guess fuckin gamers for years is great
...maybe like Northrop Grumman or something
nVidia has been the sole provider of AI specialty chipsets but now with this new AI it kills the need for specialty hardware that they've been hyping up.
https://open.spotify.com/track/5YDAT7BzTuPt0PQgckwkST?si=UUQ3YWqASTye9LI4_I-fpQ
They're "only" down 16%, meaning the company is "worth" $3 trillion.
But their annual revenues are about ~$140 Billion, meaning that stock was priced at more than 20x revenue. That, to me, is truly wild shit, Peter
Ouch.
It's basic math.
If money is cheap, everything gets expensive.
gonna laugh if they crater back down to where they were before at under a dollar a share.
So, good news. Am I wrong?
https://youtu.be/wmIxnFaJPHI
Jensen Huang, as much as we get mad at him, founded Nvidia and understands the tech. They're selling the shovels to the gold miners. They'll be fine.
Perhaps not even Sam Altman because he's said before that OpenAI is going to lose money like crazy. So he probably has his millions squirreled away somewhere.
I only just looked it up but he has zero equity in the company and all his riches are from investing. His salary is 58k a year.
So yeah no need to squirrel money away. Damn.
American protectionism is crumbling. Right on cue in Week 2!!
More to come. 🧐
the 14% did all that??
I would genuinely like to know why this is important.
Enron was a big story at the time. Now it feels like their practices are basically industry standard.
If it were actual money, panic would ensue.
The stock price didn't drop much (about $20/share). But 17% of stocks were sold in a short time.
This dropped the valuation to $2.9T, from $3.1T, which is not $600B.
Valuation != stock price total.
"LOL. LMAO."
The stock market is just a glorified casino.
Also sold all the pot, renewable energy, vegan food stocks, vaccine, and consumer sector.
Instead, I'm balls-deep in the mortuary and funeral service industry.
This is not advice.
I'm someone who lost two thousand dollars investing in Beyond Beef...
How long till they ban Chinese AI systems too?
some chinese Rain Man just built the second best AI model in the world with limited/no nvidia chips (heavy export controls)
nvidia was carrying the tech sector gains, now american tech sector in shambles
computer driven manipulation.
None of it has anything to do with the
real world.
https://youtu.be/s4K-fJ5lLWs?si=z85JeiyIWwprT1JD
This is, in the literal definition, a historic L?
But the Nvidia hype had gone overboard. Hence the flight to a safe haven like AAPL, up on the day.
The diagram is how the stock have performed the last year.
The 15% is off the total value of Nvidia which is calculated as the price of one share times all the Nvidia shares.