Iirc, there was a somewhat notorious blog by someone who tried to remove a melanoma from their nose with black salve. Complete with disturbing pictures and everything.
The blog ended with the writer dying, leaving behind (iirc) her children and husband.
Or I might be mixing up a guy with a nose melanoma and a woman with breast cancer. But two preventable slow death blogs are worse than one, so I’m going to be optimistic and assume it was one.
Social media companies don’t care what is being pushed and healthcare is so broken and inaccessible in the U.S. that it fuels a whole grifter economy of supplements & quack cures.
I’m just so tired of everything being so broken. It doesn’t have to be this way…
OH GOD, that episode.
Traveled halfway around the world to get infected with parasites that the US spent decades and millions trying to get under control at home.
Hey, you know why you don't see a lot of people in developing nations having severe autoimmune diseases? It's not because paradited are magic.
It's BECAUSE THEY TEND TO DIE.
Look, as someone who lives with lifelong chronic illness I get the desperation to try something, nay anything to find some kind of relief. But like... why worms though
My dad almost died of Crohns before I was born, and for the first 6 years of my childhood, he was underweight and bedridden every time he didn't have his meds for too long.
I cannot imagine how bad it's gonna be for her if she keeps doing this shit.
You know when you watch a show or movie or whatever set in the Old Timey West and the obvious conman with the wagon selling Miracle Tonics shows up in town and makes a killing and you're all hahaha what kind of rube would have believed that shit
one of my friends like ten years ago saw that people in the global south had a higher prevalence of parasitic infection but much lower rates of IBD and then they were thinking about buying helminths because everything made them sick. turned out all the intolerances was actually their eating disorder
After being involved with Science/Evidence based medicine promotion for years and years, I feel pretty hopeless. Not sure how to ever reach these people when their brain automatically shuts down any evidence that contradicts what they want to believe. Reality isn’t relevant to them.
ive been struggling with crohns for 2 decades and would give anything for a fecal transplant (pills or w/e). unfortunately its not really something you can just do
They used to do it by sticking the poop in your butt but then they found out the bacteria needs to get way up into your upper GI tract and it wouldn't migrate so they made poop pills which have had really high success. I have no idea why i know this, i don't have any of the diseases this applies to.
There were 2 studies and both found no benefit of hook worms, the placebo groups did slightly better. Even the one clinic in Mexico would only treat you under heavy supervision https://www.healthline.com/health/crohns-disease/hook-worms
This worked for a family member! People don't realize hookworms reproduce outside the body, so you just have a couple of worms chilling in there, and have to get new ones "installed" every year or so.
I don't, but probably a naturopath. This was for an autoimmune condition that was causing white blood cells to literally eat bone, and there was some issue with the medication(s) the MD had provided. A unique case, wouldn't recommend for everyone, and definitely exhaust MD options first!
They aren't, but real doctors have a pretty limited toolset when it comes to autoimmune issues too. It's a class of medical issues that is still not very well understood by science. Helminthic therapy is experimental, but it's not pure quackery.
yes some evidence but nb there's only like 100 patients with IBD in trials in here, scattered across a few phase 1-2 trials, a bunch of them havent been published (file drawer problem?)
Right, because studies on mice have all proven to be useless. Let me send a memo to the entire body of researchers on the planet real quick that their work has not ever been useful because it’s on mice and we should start testing things on humans first
I didn’t say it’s useless. It’s quite a leap from implanting hookworms or their excretions in mice and a human infecting herself with a hookworm. But go for it.
right, and the vast majority of starts don't lead to an intervention. It's not even specific to round/hookworms, there's lots of low quality uncontrolled trials included, and even at that it still didn't look like it would work in humans. Certainly worth continuing to research!
I think you’re leaping to a lot of conclusions about what I meant — when all I said is there is some evidence that this might work. I also think it’s worth continuing, and I would suggest that a likely ideal outcome would be a biologic based on whatever immunomodulating compounds we discover works.
correct me if i'm wrong but these studies all seem to be introducing them orally. she's just literally infecting her own arm with them through her skin
It looks like some were inoculated with larvae in the arm...
But it really seems ill-advised to be doing this unsupervised.
How is she sourcing these?? How is she *dosing* these??
Weird, I don’t think hookworms work that way. I can’t say whatever she’s doing is effective or sensible of course — I haven’t seen the thing you’re talking about, I assumed she was doing what other people who have investigated hookworms do.
I used to think people turned to hokum because so many Americans can't access actual medical care. In that vacuum they turned to pre-germ theory shit that was very, very cheap in the hopes that *maybe* it would help.
But instead usually it seems usually to be people who DO have healthcare. ????
No, but that's only because I learned about this crap nearly a decade ago, and since then have managed to get most of the resulting screaming, panic, and nightmares out of my system.
Seeing this image just made me feel exasperated. She's probably going to infect others without realizing it.
I once listened to a podcast where a guy was trying to cure his allergies with hookworms. He infected himself by walking barefoot around a latrine in some underdeveloped country.
the best part is all the clinical trials exploring this therapy are for oral administration but she's applying them topically and just letting them directly infest her arm
also they have a very extensive wiki where they try to find nice ways to say "do not tell your doctor about this or their hippocratic oath will require them to tell you to stop it"
I love the bit about how the doctor should continue providing the usual treatment. Then when the person gets better they'll presumably go "nothing to do with the medicine my doctor gave me, it was definitely the hookworms"
Aaargh. Does she live with other people? Do they know they have a parasite vector in their home with them? Does she prepare food for other folk? Does she provide care for vulnerable people? Does she have pets? I mean, infection risk is low, but it is not zero.
ick ick ICK
YEP.
Although, that's the most common means of infection.
The history of fighting hookworm in the US South is an interesting, if extremely disgusting, subject that will tell you far more about the subject than you ever wanted to know.
That’s typically how hookworms are acquired. It’s how the researchers got the idea for it in the first place. They noticed a lower incidence of immune system issues in ppl who lived in places were hookworms were easily & frequently acquired (usually by walking around barefoot near outdoor toilets).
Read more about helminthic therapy. The hookworms can be treated, but the benefit to the immune system stays. That being said, no one should be doing this on their own without supervision from a board certified immunologist.
There’s an episode of this American life on the guy who came up with this for auto-immune disease treatment. Worth a listen before jumping to conclusions about whether it’s total bullshit or not https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-three-0
this has been a thing for a very long time, like the gift that keeps on giving. i have severe crohns and get the desperation (also, crohns is a type of IBD, not something different) but i draw a firm line at parasites
Yes!, I remember reading a few years ago about someone who traveled to Africa to walk around barefoot for this purpose—he wanted it RIGHT FROM NATURE. Shockingly, it didn’t go well; he ended up with a lot of parasite-related joint problems on top his IBD
Ohhh yes, it's a thing.
After I was diagnosed with celiac, I got on message boards and even subscribed to a magazine, and intentionally getting parasites for treating autoimmune illness was a subject that kept popping up.
I would do it as part of a serious research trial, but random worms from random sources sounds like a weird way of saying you want to see the infectious disease specialist in your area more often.
The meeting by which she's infecting herself is also bonkers.
Yes, let the worms take the scenic route to your gut. Sure hope they don't damage anything important on the way!
Because that way you know the amount of worm cysts going into your gi system.
And it lessens the likelihood of the worms doing damage while hunting for the intestines.
And it's still insane and doesn't appear to cause remission.
If she's part of a clinical trial of some sort (run by real medical researchers), I'd maybe be willing to be open minded. But this definitely sounds like the result of a chain of very unsound reasoning 😥
I hate that so many people don't understand that the 1000s of years if traditional medicine we have inherited was also the product of people (mostly women) doing very careful experiments and research.
It was never someone saying "Ooh, maybe if I try this crazy parasite, it will fix my IBS!".
Noooooo 🤢
Look, I'm a "use all the tools in the toolbox" kind of person when it comes to illness and incorporate western and traditional medicine but there are some things people just can't use common sense about like...whyyyyyy?!?! Are we bringing back leeches, too? 😂😫
It kinda sorta almost makes sense if you don’t understand anything. My immune system is attacking my own cells and ruining me, what if I was full of worms that my immune system had to fight instead.
Well lady you are just gonna be full of worms and still have stomach aches.
Back when there were like 4 podcasts in 2007 I heard the claim made on radiolab and even then I was like “god this is a shit podcast and there is no way this is right” but then the podcast had a funny noise and I forgot about my opinion until now.
Comments
The blog ended with the writer dying, leaving behind (iirc) her children and husband.
But what do I know
I’m just so tired of everything being so broken. It doesn’t have to be this way…
if she goes barefoot she's gonna spread this to others in her community
Traveled halfway around the world to get infected with parasites that the US spent decades and millions trying to get under control at home.
It's BECAUSE THEY TEND TO DIE.
Oh hell, what did autocorrect try to do there
I cannot imagine how bad it's gonna be for her if she keeps doing this shit.
I knew someone who had severe Crohn's disease. Very awful thing, but not worth what she did.
It’s super gross but not completely crazy. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5401880/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy
That's what I disagree with.
It's ok if we disagree, I still like you and think you are clever. We agree that it's worth researching further.
But it really seems ill-advised to be doing this unsupervised.
How is she sourcing these?? How is she *dosing* these??
And this isn't someone taking a controlled dose of parasites in a clinical setting, it's just some person doing it in their own at home.
But instead usually it seems usually to be people who DO have healthcare. ????
Seeing this image just made me feel exasperated. She's probably going to infect others without realizing it.
This is marketing for people who want to deny the world basic sanitation
Genuinely thanking you for making me look this up because I love learning about weird medicine shit
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/creeping-eruption
ick ick ICK
Although, that's the most common means of infection.
The history of fighting hookworm in the US South is an interesting, if extremely disgusting, subject that will tell you far more about the subject than you ever wanted to know.
this atrocious misuse of "POV:" is just too much for me
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/23/parasitic-hookworm-jasper-lawrence-tim-adams?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters?
After I was diagnosed with celiac, I got on message boards and even subscribed to a magazine, and intentionally getting parasites for treating autoimmune illness was a subject that kept popping up.
Yes, let the worms take the scenic route to your gut. Sure hope they don't damage anything important on the way!
And it lessens the likelihood of the worms doing damage while hunting for the intestines.
And it's still insane and doesn't appear to cause remission.
It was never someone saying "Ooh, maybe if I try this crazy parasite, it will fix my IBS!".
Look, I'm a "use all the tools in the toolbox" kind of person when it comes to illness and incorporate western and traditional medicine but there are some things people just can't use common sense about like...whyyyyyy?!?! Are we bringing back leeches, too? 😂😫
And also partially because the crunchy stuff doesn't need a prescription, so they feel like they have more control.
Well lady you are just gonna be full of worms and still have stomach aches.