there's something to be said about the amount of widely recognized great art written by shitty people. however, shitty people shouldn't be honored and placed in anthologies and reap the benefits of that while they are still alive. it's the purview of the living to decide who is carried into history
just because JD Salinger wrote a good book doesn't mean he's not a creepy weirdo I probably wouldn't have wanted to hang out with (and he's not even the worst author to name)
What l really like is how extrajudicial kidnappings, exile to foreign gulags and denial of even the most basic representation is swept away with "attention grabbing".
The exact same way that Nazis were still talking about the Jews while the camps were open. They’re dishonest agents, their goal is dominion, they don’t give a shit about what they need to do or say to put themselves at the top of the heap, where they insist they belong.
It is a conscious attempt to change the conversation to that which they perceive as trivial.
It's like the "women with phds should be called doctor" article. A) "please god please get the libs to focus on this" - and also B) "can you believe the libs are focused on this?!"
Why would a narcissist stop viewing the world as though it revolves around him? Why would they stop manufacturing grievances when shameless whining works so well?
it's enough to make me wish cancel culture was real and then i might never have to read this utterly vapid takes from these utterly vapid people again. these guy needs to get a life.
Really? Entire groups of people have been erased from existence by those who benefit by controlling the message. What else are we misled by? Stay curious, my friend.✌️
One of the most depressing parts about the Junot Díaz saga is how the media rebranded the accusations as fake when the investigation "clearing" him was extremely sloppy, did not contact several of his most prominent victims, and adopted a bizarre definition of sexual misconduct
The pulitzer board in clearing Diaz basically seems to have decided that sexual misconduct *only* includes egregious sexual assault, and does not include sexual harassment.
[All of this is from Jude Ellison S. Doyle article "Ben Smith, Junot Díaz, and How the Anti-#MeToo Sausage Gets Made"]
many such cases! although usually it's the university conducting (or having conducted "independently") the sham investigation. amazing that this guy just took it on himself
On top of everything else, it is *so* easy to teach Diaz if a teacher wishes to teach Diaz. Oh, he's not in the Norton? Go print a PDF of one of his many, many New Yorker stories.
There are authors in the Norton Anthology of World Lit who would be quite hard to find for a professor if they weren't anthologized (they're out of print; they're not often translated etc.)
yes he does, because he views his own social circle as real people and the real victims of actual violent oppression as merely theoretical. But he's trying really hard to pretend he thinks the former is bad because he senses he needs to, to continue to be taken seriously.
every once in a while it occurs to me that we could be having a really fascinating conversation about whether or not one can separate art from the artist. it’s a real debate! too bad we’re rolling around in the mud of victim narratives and faux-persecution.
This is something I’d like to spend more time talking about. Distance seems to help. Problematic artists seems different to me from a live current artist. They’re crimes or maybe indiscretions seem more real and immediate.
There is a writer somewhere who has composed some of the most brilliant stories that get to the heart of the human condition, but nobody outside their friend will ever see them because they went on one writer retreat and rejected a sexual advance by someone can gave up on ever being published.
I am way more interested in all the stories that we will never read because people were pushed out of the industry, or just never came close enough to be pushed out, than the fact that any particular well known writer isn't going to come up on the AP exam.
I like Diaz's writing but him being a sex pest recontextualizes a lot of it from "nuanced and stark exploration at masculinity, male sexuality, and race" to "jerk off fantasy of a sex pest".
That recontextualization makes him less worthy of being in the cannon. TCW lacks the intellect to see that.
I mean, it's Thomas Chatterton Williams, who was the force behind the Harper's Letter. Of course he's going to keep writing about this shit, as it's the shit his career is built on.
"illiberalism" per se is a giant bad faith red flag, "woke [pejorative]" 10x more so. TCW is barely a nazi stalking horse, he's practically a nazi himself with this language
I blocked TCW for a reason! He only posts the laziest of reactions and I don't need to spend time wondering how that French country manor grifter always manages to have the shallowest, most meaningless takes.
I know this isnt the most important thing there but howling at the idea that only one publisher's anthology can create literary canon and that pulling her from it will affect her career at all, really, let alone cancel her. lol. lmao.
Referring to multiple public accusations as "rumors" just gives the game away. He wants to complain about "shrill women" but knows he has to dress it up at least a bit.
I don't know what made my brain start doing it, but it auto-replaces his name with 'is Tom Willy, chat?' in annoying Twitch streamer voice every time I see it, and I think that's nice.
It'd be one thing if he were faking, but he's impossible to be rid of precisely because he's so fully invested. The most earnestly stupid man in letters
Would literally be more honorable to spend his life wasting away in a French cafe drinking and smoking too much and trying to sound learned to various hangers-on. At least he'd have some elan.
I will never not be confused that he’s a relatively young person and has become known basically only for his posting. He’s got the vibe of a guy whose useless opinions we’ve put up with for 30 years because he did the last great interview with Miles Davis or something.
Thomas noticed people were really going after Will Stancil over his dumb takes about communism and had to find some new dumb takes about “cancel culture” and PC culture run amok.
cancelled in the “final, official way” where you’re a full professor at MIT and still get big book deals and everything, but once in a while someone remembers what you did and you have a sad about it
I would venture to guess that 95% of the people who liked his post had never heard of the Norton anthologies until reading his post. Hell most of them probably don't even know who Junot Diaz is if they are buying this framing of Diaz as some starving artist.
yeah i guess you could say removing an author from an anthology isn't an "attention-grabbing" as illegally shipping hundreds of people to an overseas torture camp. but that just makes it all the more important to give it as much of our attention as possible, at all times
After charges came to light and his works weren’t being taught as often “suddenly” Diaz was removed from the anthology. SUDDENLY? Is that a sudden action, my dude? 🙄
Odd take on this. The word "disappear" as a verb is being watered down, and I don't love that. But I share the concern about cancellation. We ignore it when we either don't like or don't care about the work of the canceled person. That's not a defense of cancellation as a phenomenon.
he's still a teacher at MIT where he allegedly abused students, he kept his Boston Review position, and his work has been adapted to the stage since the allegations came out. Most fiction writers struggle to stay that employed for that long without credible abuse allegations.
I have to say, this extremely not clever play on “disappeared” is absolutely one of the most disgusting things I’ve read in some time
Whoever wrote this should delete their column, delete their social media account, and keep deleting until they have nothing left but a surly book review on Goodreads
I checked to make sure that this column was indeed published now, with the world as it is right now, and not back when that word did not yet apply to US immigration policy
I'm not saying that he's a bad teacher because he failed to notice the omission (we all make mistakes). But a *bibliophile* would taste the differences between editions in their fingers.
I took quite a few literature classes in college (I was one technicality short of a minor). As I recall, none of my professors used a Norton anthology, or any anthology at all: *Everything* was picked out on a work-by-work basis.
"Finding that instructors had stopped assigning Diaz after the charges surfaced, the editors decided that he had suddenly become more of a liability to the anthology than an asset."
This must be a sensitive topic for TCW, he must surely know that he hasn't written a single word anyone will read even a week past his heyday, such as it is.
I am old enough to remember when the inclusion of a writer like Junior Diaz in the NA was considered “woke.” How flexible our reactionary politics has become.
My near namesake's argument seems to be that by not being in the anthology that teachers use, he won't be taught. But that screenshot shows that's reversing cause and effect: he wasn't being taught, so they took him out of the anthology
Prof assigns the more expensive newest edition to his class and then doesn't even double check that the edition encompasses his syllabus. What an asshole.
Wild that this article comes out exactly when people have ACTUALLY BEEN DISAPPEARED. Like if you wanted to create a false equivalence and say that The Left is also disappearing people, this is what you'd do.
As one of those instructors, it definitely does have to do with MeToo and that’s a good thing. I taught Diaz in the past, but stopped. And Norton definitely got that feedback.
Wait wait si they are whining about a routine editorial changes? Does he think Norton anthologies stay the same each year? Has he ever READ a Norton anthology??
I like Diaz as a writer. He was already fighting writer's block by 2012 and it was pretty obvious that he was either struggling to balance his non-writing obligations with his fiction or else hiding in them.
Yeah no shit Thomas. Maybe it's less attention grabbing because it's a one-source speculational nothingburger.
People are being disappeared off the street & fired by the tens of thousands and these pundits cannot stop finding excuses to act like left-wing illiberalism is a threat to democracy
yeah that seems true. Seems like Diaz was impacted by a few things: 1. Being so widely praised that people wanted to take him down; 2. His literary persona being confused with his real one; 3. Many of the topics he focused on becoming more sensitive.
There is a bit of chicken and egg going on -- per the semafor piece he hasn't written bc he feels wrongly exiled/depressed. So he isn't as prominent. If (IF!) he was wrongly accused that seems like a real harm.
Also though, he's a novelist, how long do novelists generally stay central in the culture? Especially ones like Diaz who aren't very prolific. It's pretty normal for someone to have a big book or two then fade into teaching.
this is sad--he clearly has suffered great consequences but I think a huge part of it is that it threw him into a depression that has stopped him from writing. which is really terrible! but hard to fix by uncancelling him
(what I mean is, if he wrote a new book it'd get published)
It would be a bit like Louie CK now I think? He'd be published and probably sell but might not have the same engagement from the press, tastemakers, etc.
yeah but what really matters: people getting kidnapped off the street? those are grad students, basically nobody. never going to affect me. not being able to find a work of literature in a specific book? that’s going to severely impact the common man’s everyday life in his French country château
So he assigned a reading that wasn’t even in the book without checking to see if it was in the book before he assigned it. And he got embarrassed that his take on “highly canonical” works doesn’t matter to the printed canon
Just a side note, but they (the right) are actually banning books from being available to students in public schools, seems pertinent to his argument as well
I mean...it is also just plain disgusting to leverage the language of forcible disappearance in this manner AT THE EXACT MOMENT IT IS REALLY HAPPENING. This person should be ashamed.
The kicker here is that had TCW not sought out an example to fit his thesis of “woke illiberalism” no one would have noticed that Diaz’s work had been dropped from the Norton Anthology, a textbook that that has new edition published almost every year. Probably not even Diaz himself.
Williams is doing something interesting, there, by introducing the quoted paragraph as though it's going to be a revelation from Norton editors - when actually, it's Williams' own interpretation of what he gleaned from multiple sources.
Thomas should take comfort in knowing that the people being disappeared are going to prisons which are more likely to have older versions of the anthology rather than the latest edition, so they will still have access to Diaz
People are being disappeared off the street and you’re screenshotting some loser who lives in France and has no power. why are you whining about this shit in april 2025. You’re both making recreational complaints
Even Joyce Carol Oates can’t seem to see that protesting an author (Schumer in her case) is not some genocidal affront to Important Words And Ideas. Thomas was broken by publishing in the same way, only rather than being a talented novelist he’s a simple dipshit with well-placed friends.
Oates veers wildly between "More or less reasonable opinion" and "The most bonkers possible take." It's so bizarre to watch. It's like "Let's be kind to each other, yes?" followed by "I have never seen anyone hold a teacup with their left hand before. People don't do that."
Might not be as attention-grabbing as disappearing college students for writing op-eds, but neglecting to include my favorite sex-pest in an anthology is far more insidious
I don't interpret this as anything other than an attempt to provide cover for right-wing illiberalism. Maybe some of these people are misguided and blinkered rather than intending to actively abet, but if so they can plead it to the Nuremberg Tribunal (figuratively)—I'm not making the case
The main arc of Díaz’s recent career is *not being punished for accusations of sexual impropriety*. It’s been written about extensively! He has been accused, was investigated, and suffered no professional repercussions!
It speaks volumes that these dorks rush to defend any accused sex pest, but have very little to say about these collections in any other context. Like is this dork even writing about a literary collection if Diaz wasn't involved in some way?
I haven’t read the article you’re responding to, but the Diaz accusations were (in contrast to others) fairly groundless. I recommend the piece published in the Chronicles of Higher Ed discussing (and chasing down) the allegations. Machado made hers up entirely out of “solidarity”(?)
Exactly. The conversation is not about the allegations about him. The conversation is about how regular review and curation of works in an anthology does not constitute "being canceled."
But it's Thomas Chatterton Williams. If there is a bad take to be had, he will run with it. He's nothing more than a glorified troll and the less attention we pay to him the better.
I don't understand why an instructor would use a new edition of an anthology without checking the contents first. Chapters in edited anthologies frequently change between editions for all sorts of reasons.
It makes me wonder if the situation did not exactly play out like this.
They even said they took him out because people stopped assigning him! Does TCW think Norton should be in the business of deciding for teachers or not?
I feel like if you’re gonna stake so much of this story on the reader accepting the premise that Diaz is a great writer you need to assign at least a decent one to the article. This breathless first person anecdote makes it appear like the author had never encountered a textbook before!
do think problematic writers’ work can still be incredibly valuable in literary study — Diaz has written one of the only actually-readable second person stories — but that doesn’t mean he is owed a spot in the Norton! Also, as an academic myself, teaching from the Norton is kind of lazy, sorry!
It’s shocking how none of these “defenses” involve any defense of the actual conduct, just that no one should ever face any consequences for them, if he didn’t want the consequences he shouldn’t have done that shit!
Literature like Sonic Meets Metallica and Zero Dark Garfield have been excluded from the literary canon, not receiving their own Barnes and Noble Classics Collection releases, essentially making them "cancelled" by illiberal woke policy. pc frankfurt school dei bleeding heart cultural marxism
Junot Diaz remains a bestselling author who continues to teach at M.I.T. and serve as editor of The Boston Review. But o woe, woe of woes, a piece of his work was not included in an anthology, oh the humanity, when will this illiberal nightmare end.
He has a job, he has every accolade imaginable, his books are still read and taught, the indignity here is so flimsily conjured; the vapor they can’t stop pointing at to insist that me too and every other effort to hold the powerful to account has gone way too far
Not the main issue, but it can’t be “illiberal” for Norton, a private entity, to pick and choose which authors they want in their anthology. It is actually pretty central to liberalism that they have an unrestricted right to do that however they see fit.
Wait is this guy seriously arguing that removing an author from a book is basically as bad as kidnapping people off the streets and holding them in indefinite detention in horrific conditions
Privilege is an overused word. Being so far removed from the mass firings and kidnappings and book banning that the worst thing to happen to someone you know is being removed from an anthology (while keeping their prestigious teaching role) is peak privilege.
At best one or two of your followers is aware that I am quoting (yes, approvingly) from an article that *someone else wrote.* It’s ambiguous whether you are even aware. Very few of you seem to read what you comment so passionately on.
I am endorsing the citation. But I didn’t write it. And people are responding to me as the author. This is basic. None of y’all read, you have prefabricated thoughts and responses at the ready for michael.
I follow you. I don't think I have prefabricated thoughts. I disagree with you probably more than I agree but I find you still have interesting things to say from time to time.
You're the one making the outlandish comparison to the outright fascism of the Trump administration. No one here is buying this cute little act of yours
And you have no response to the many substantive criticisms of the quote. Too busy writing your fourth autobiography about your penchant for domestic violence?
You still cannot convince me that a man with the middle name Chatterton is not made up. I didn't know that a word could also be a bowtie, but here we are.
Mild social scorn and the loss of a few economic opportunities is scarier to Thomas than fascist death camps became he only thinks it’s possible for him to experience the latter.
Waiting for him to apply this degree of concern to how Pamela Paul’s choices as NYTBR editor affected our “cultural inheritance” and determined who enters the canon.
"For a writer, being removed from one anthology is objectively worse than being snatched off the street by masked govt thugs, and disappeared to gulag in El Salvador"
A goober being excluded from an anthology might not be grabbing attention quite like human beings being disappeared to a Central American gulag by the government without due process, but it’s arguably an even more egregious abuse Michael
The allegations against Diaz weren’t discredited. The Pulitzer board decided when he forced a kiss on someone and it was only a kiss on the cheek, that wasn’t bad enough to keep him off the board. But he still did it. And people can still think it was icky, regardless of what the Pulitzer board did.
This may blow back and bring on the Streisand effect for Junot Diaz. The main thing I know about him is that he was credibly accused of rampant sexual harassment as a professor. This will just bring up those stories again.
Maybe with "friends" like that he doesn't need enemies?
Comments
It's like the "women with phds should be called doctor" article. A) "please god please get the libs to focus on this" - and also B) "can you believe the libs are focused on this?!"
TCW remains employed, after all.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/61004458/chapters/155845363
It's nothing new.
[All of this is from Jude Ellison S. Doyle article "Ben Smith, Junot Díaz, and How the Anti-#MeToo Sausage Gets Made"]
And the media + many academics rebranded this as a racist "cancellation" because they can't be bothered to read the actual evidence.
Junot Díaz is just not one of those writers.
on the other: "A rich writer lost a small amount of income and prestige, merely for being terrible"
another rich writer: These are exactly the same actually.
That recontextualization makes him less worthy of being in the cannon. TCW lacks the intellect to see that.
Removal to concentration camp without due process=no big whoop
And he knows it.
smh
Were previous editions destroyed? No.
Are Diaz's stories no longer available? No.
How has he 'been disappeared' exactly?
https://www.chronicle.com/article/junot-diazs-forced-disappearing-act
Schools have libraries and he could have just emailed his subject librarian without the need to “scramble” for a pdf. 🙄
Whoever wrote this should delete their column, delete their social media account, and keep deleting until they have nothing left but a surly book review on Goodreads
The marketplace of ideas strikes again!
HIGHLY. CANONICAL.
apparently not, my dude.
Seems he was just mad he had to do some work for the class. What would he say to such a lazy student, I wonder?
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2024/06/fifth-edition-norton-anthology-of-world-literature
People are being disappeared off the street & fired by the tens of thousands and these pundits cannot stop finding excuses to act like left-wing illiberalism is a threat to democracy
(what I mean is, if he wrote a new book it'd get published)
The government is BANNING BOOKS and this chowderhead is worried about someone not being published?
his closet
every centrist who feeds into this just gives off “trying to get ahead of it” behavior
It’s only when he thinks the man is a kindred spirit (abuses women) that he jumps in
They're too intellectually dishonest for college op-eds, but Maureen Dowd somehow still finds the worst there to literally groom
To paraphrase Tig Notaro, all the wrong people have imposter syndrome
It makes me wonder if the situation did not exactly play out like this.
Same old shit from that crowd
Neat rhetorical trick here creating a link in the reader's mind but providing the author a textual out.
Barack Obama won his election after the war against Germany ended
I don't understand why they are taken seriously.
Ya think?
Maybe with "friends" like that he doesn't need enemies?