Not only that, some people can't handle the idea that they were wrong about anything let alone something like this. They will follow him forever if it means they don't have to admit they made a mistake. Some have such a weak mental foundation that any cracks are devastating.
It illustrates what the real problem is. People are consuming algorithmically charged bullshit pushed to their phone with notifications. The matrix is real
Actually the educational system has been actively targeted by the right for the last 50 years. Public education has been starved, and millions of students have been funneled into Christian right private schools and home schooling. This was a very conscious effort that is clearly paying off.
I'm a high school teacher of 30 years, and I must respectfully disagree that education hasn't changed. Much about education has improved since I started, but what has changed is the pull of social media and a large population of parents who either don't know how to parent or won't let their kids...
Disagree. If you think the educational system of our country hasn't changed at both the global and local level, you have been asleep for the last 40 years.
In many countries it is unthinkable to graduate anyone from high school with less than a 5th grade reading proficiency.
It isn't just Fox News ...
Remember that many left it after they said Biden won the election.
I know those who went to News Max and then there were those who went to sites with even less credibility.
They are in my view worse than Fox.
Although you are right Fox and X are bad
I honestly don't think think they are "consuming" any "information". Information would help! I think they're just pulling random ideas out of their heads and "projecting" their ideals on Trump.
Exactly. My son is 20 and a gamer. All his “news” is what is pushed to him based on how the algorithm targets him. It’s a constant battle to broaden his horizons. But that’s the space Democrats should move into.
Trying to nail down the positive things Trump accomplished in 2016-2020 that aren't vibes based is impossible. People think he did and will do things that never happened and were never promised.
I don't think it's fair to call them stupid. People that are into politics overestimate how much the average person pays attention. To them it's like voting for the MVP of a sport you don't follow every 4 years.
He is correct most people don't know anything about politics or policy as a rule. Low information voters. They may be perfectly competent in their domain of work though
I wonder what happens when they realize our assistance around the world isn't just us being altruistic but is what allowed us to run the board when it comes to trade and whatnot.
The one guy's comment of "why are we helping other countries when there are starving people in LA" was particularly annoying. Congrats, now we will help neither group. We'll create more refugees while we're at it that can also starve in LA.
That's why we kept Newsom around even though he annoys us too sometimes lol. The guy is not afraid of anything, he doesn't put up with Trump's bullying.
I imagine as things get more expensive and less easy to travel places, they will blame immigrants and other marginalized groups because that's the playbook!
They could have gotten quotes from voters in any election the US has ever held that would be just as detached from reality. If we're cooked now, we've always been cooked.
And if you look at the QTs, it is a ton of Dem voters taking the lesson to be that people are stupid -- not exactly a recipe for a healthy democratic opposition party.
So how do we start reaching them with reason and compassion? Because I come from a pretty well educated family and 60% of my immediate family just dismisses anything I try to show or tell them as lies or fake news. The propaganda has convinced them they’re the enlightened. Hard to work with that.
As always the key is to recognize the ways in which they’re stupid (believing ChatGPT/Fox News) and the ways they’re smart (can be guided to think critically). In this case the winning message will probably be “Trump betrayed you.”!
That's possible, but it's not why they believe the foolish thing. There's a whole big propaganda machine behind it, and the line between prudent and sensible beliefs doesn't fall neatly along lines of intelligence or education (though there are obviously trends in that direction).
brilliant people get sucked into even totalitarian regime propaganda. SOME brilliant people are right leaning and Republican. The theory that “THEY are stupid” is satisfying but not actionable so I recommend we de-emphasize it in favor of some variant of “it’s the propaganda that’s to blame”
It doesn’t fall neatly along those lines, but I look at intelligence and education like vaccines against believing the ridiculous. It may not completely armor you against believing the ridiculous, but it makes it far less likely that you will.
The only logical answer will be secession. As hard and potentially bloody as that may be, we are stuck with each other until we can find a way to not be.
True, but accepting that they're stupid is really important for working out how to reach them.
Presenting statistics, facts and evidence won't weay them. You've got to work out how to he be shallow.
Not stupid but profoundly uninterested in most news because it bores them or they don't see the point. So they default to cartoonish stances like Trump the tough guy or Trump the businessman
That's the strategy that has us losing. You can't educate people against their will. give them the opportunity to learn, and then plan to go around them
yeah, the “we’re cooked” takeaway implies we can’t do anything. we can. Ds just openly REFUSE to. Harris literally said on the View “i wouldn’t do anything different” , with her bleating for the votes of Liz Cheney superfans, doesn’t inspire Joe McDipshit to wait in line for her
Exactly, labeling them stupid is in fact, stupid. Progressives have to learn to speak to people outside their circle. We did a terrible job communicating to the American public. We lost control of the dynamic and it shows.
"Stupid" is maybe an unhelpful word. Maybe "Misinformed to a code-red, toxic degree" is more accurate. But when you allow yourself to be misinformed on this horrific level, what 1 word best describes that? It's not "learning to speak outside circle." It's "competing with right-wing media flood."
Agree with you 100%, but we are not going to win elections without finding a way to re-include those who will be disenfranchised. And yes it’s a flood we have fought with a garden hose. Let’s hope the politicians and the advisors learn this lesson you and I already know to be true.
Yeah, It does appear like some are learning it (though figuring out the prescription is--admittedly--tricky. We've ceded so much of the communication infrastructure that took them literally decades to build. Some days definitely feels like it was better when the uninformed just sat out elections.
Brainwashed. Conditioned. The first rule in brainwashing is make sure the target gets all his information from you. The best way to do that is tell your followers "all network news is fake."
Never have so many been fooled by so few.
Putin has been laughing his ass off.
Let me get you a tissue. Harris did a great job of promoting real benefits she wanted to bring to Americans. Child care, caregiver support, improved a business opportunities,serious help with clean energy, etc.
The rt wing propaganda was just flooding the zone with the whataboutism of the MSM.
Facts
So, borrow the orange narcissist’s playbook? Lie prolifically, be vulgar, make up sophomoric nicknames for your foes, find a vulnerable scapegoat population to demonize … ? That sort of thing?
The biggest reason for the Dem loss was the trend away from incumbency right now. People wanted something different, so they justified voting for Trump - ie believed whatever made them feel good. In a year or two they'll turn on him and believe other stuff.
Much of the western working class has proven susceptible to reactionary National Conservatism. You can see that in the comment from the feller who thinks Trump supports Christian values. Marxist theoreticians rarely seem to want to get to grips with the working-classes love of reactionary pols.
So you have to forgive western academics of a progressive bent if they looks at the working class with suspicion given that they seem to want their superstitions and tribal needs served/catered by baser politicians. The bottom-line is it's very hard to love the working-classes these days.
I'm not advocating "loving" the working class! I'm just protesting the profound self-love that insulates "western academics of a progressive bent" from seeking to understand the forces that frustrate them against and again.
Just learn how to win them over. Trump certainly knows how to! What bothers me are others that are obtuse and project their own political theories, like “no, they’re asking for Medicare for All” or “they have anxieties about outsourcing” when it’s just that they’re… not informed.
Trump wins the over bc he's as dumb as they are. He speaks like a 3rd grader just like them. Dumb people feel threatened by smart people. He also appeals to their grievance. They could care less about him making things better for them. They just want him to make life worse for those they hate.
The big difference is that never before has a presidential candidate so openly, loudly and clearly proved the opposite of what these people say. It is a bizarre cult of total stupidity.
I think it is true. Stupid/willfully ignorant people are the majority now. Clearly in the US, but most likely in every country.
What needs to be learned is how to simplify the messages and policies enough so they can still be informed citizens, without people feeling talked down to.
That's the root problem though, they are stupid, and not just Republicans. The sad truth is that you can't have a functional democracy when 50-70% of the population is practically mentally disabled.
It's the TRUTH! The electorate IS stupid. Every cycle or so, they get lured into voting against their own interests by the GOP, the GOP makes a mess of things & the Dems have to clean it up. It's not elitist to admit it.
And you think red areas are BETTER?Historically, most Democratic administrations have to clean up messes the GOP left behind (Clinton 1992, Obama 2008, Biden 2020, & soon Harris 2028) yet voters never learn that the GOP is bad for them!
I dunno, I haven’t spent much time in red states. Mostly just speaking from my experience in California. Our cities are a mess: runaway housing costs, poor infrastructure, mediocre schools (and yet, we pay a lot in taxes.)
It’s because the axiom of absolute power corrupts is true.
Here in the Boston area it’s so corrupt that they cannot even get the T to run anywhere near functionally acceptable. The trains are filthy, late, constantly breaking down, w/lawless employee reports.
Embarrassing
Except they are stupid or intentionally delusional or evil or lying or some combination of all of them. We're not doing ourselves any favors if we deny that reality.
The lesson should be that the democrat’s political platform is not popular enough and is losing them votes from segments they previously owned without much effort.
Biggest takeaway? Young white men are also important to winning elections, so might be worth acknowledging them and their needs.
I don't think it's that they need to appeal to particular demographics. These people are talking about things like health care and the housing crisis -- issues that affect everyone. Unfortunately, neither party is actually doing anything about them.
Healthcare is going hard now with the UHC murder. We are meeting Americans from both sides who have suffered.
Get out your fucking megaphones and start there Democrats!
It’s a huge opportunity to get the focus off of Trump and back on the real issues facing America.
(Reps aren’t going to do shit.)
We are all subject to a morass of propaganda, which results in our being used to gain access to our collective resources. Those resources should be for the benefit of the people, but are being raided by enemy agents. We must save what we can, and those people who will unite to save it.
Fascist sympathizers are not and have never been merely confused anticapitalists.
Erich Fromm is on point about understanding why fascists are the way they are. I dunno who *these* people are but people do not support fascists because they are just confused innocent children.
Fair point. Absolutely. But far more concerning and considering what was at stake in this election, and also the stark availability of consistent and overwhelming information refuting the beliefs that led them to vote for him. We’ve always been this stupid, but rarely this duped.
Well, and we have always been cooked.
We're not rational actors in the main, we can hope for some kind of wisdom of the aggregate.
It is, as has been said, the worst form of government excepting everything else we've come up with so far.
I was misinformed by legacy Dem ran media that the vaccines were safe. I totally agree that misinformation is a problem that the Dems need to figure out if they are gonna win any more elections. Dems are cooked indeed.
The stupidity is breathtaking. But apparently, propaganda works way beyond my imagination.
The sad thing is that you can’t even counter with facts because it’s all feelings to them.
That's why it's important not to call them stupid and offer respect instead. On X, I was able to change the mind of a lady who calls abortion "murder" to someone who can feel empathy for a women faced with that decision. Would I have gotten that same result by calling her stupid or worse? No.
Is what you stated a fact? If so do you have the factual data to support your statement that "most of them are just stupid"? I'd be interested in those numbers.
In the search for truth, data collection can be a painful experience. But it is important to understand what people are thinking if we are ever to effectively counter this trend.
Well as that's not really viable. I suppose we'll have to rely on experience, knowledge, common sense, and good old fashioned critical thinking skills to spot the lies as best we can.
Well I hope you can forgive me for holding on to the hope that our doom isn't a metaphysical certainty. But you are right that we are facing some real challenges.
I think a big part of that challenge is the basic structure of our legislature. Currently it tends to favor winner takes all.
One way that I think we could reverse our hyperpolarization is to change things up a bit. Build in bipartisanship by default instead of by rare exception.
1. Every vote needs a simple majority in the chamber, and each major party.
2. The gavel is held by alternating parties changing hands...
There is a 0% chance that he'll do any of the things these people think he's going to do to help them and a 1000% chance that when he doesn't they'll come up with some insane brain washed excuse for why it's actually good that he didn't. Or he actually did lower but the media is pretending he didn't
Jesus Christmas. I was lucky enough to get a good education, and ofc I'm well aware that not everyone has the same opportunities - but I cannot stand the willfully ignorant. They are beneath contempt.
Also, who are these people who want the country run like a business? That's a terrible way to run a country. It means nobody gets raises, your health care gets shittier and more expensive every year, and your bosses get richer and dumber every year.
I never understood this reasoning either. It implies valuing a system more than the people in it. You could argue supporting said system is to help people, but it also assumes that the system works in their favor. Which is… stupidly optimistic, at best lmao
It's an infuriating but effective Republican talking point.
You quite literally can't run a Government like a business. Governments provide important services that are not profitable.
Businesses simply don't provide services that aren't profitable.
You are so right we need to run our country like a loving family, looking after the needs of each other, not like a business where you keep wages low, cut quality to make profit, lay people off.
Running a government like a business is the bedrock of Fascism. Governments provide services. Businesses provide shareholder value. Are they stupid enough to believe that a government-for-profit will put money in their pockets?
For the life of me, I don't understand this myth that Trump is good with money and that he's good at running a business. He's objectively terrible at both. Also, I've heard Republicans parroting the line "he'll run the country like a business" ever since Bush Jr. was running.
It started on The Apprentice. Which the producers have since apologized for. Not that they, or anyone, could’ve seen the Trumpzilla they were creating.
Right?? What THEY don’t seem to understand is that Governments are NOT businesses. Their purpose is not to make $$$! It’s to make everyone’s lives better! To regulate things. Make us Safer. Etc. Promote the general welfare.
As someone who had worked in the business world for 30+ years, “like a business” means riddled with incompetence, infighting, nepotism, and greed, as far as I’m concerned. Automatic no vote whenever a candidate for anything trots this out.
And business heads tend to focus on one or two businesses whereas governing is a whole host of different issues and isn’t a profit centre. It’s for the benefit of the people, not the shareholders
This continues to boggle my mind. Do these people know anything at all about good business or that multiple bankruptcies, fraud, failed brands, unpaid contractors, tax evasion, incompetent hiring practices, did I mention felony fraud? are not part of it?
It's SM propaganda. You don't fit the algorithm so you don't see it. The people who do see it think everyone sees it and so they can't understand why we don't understand. It's radicalisation on a massive scale. The same happened in the UK with the EU referendum.
He ran the country like his business. Six bankruptcies, involved in 3,000+ lawsuits. He created his myth, and for 40+ years, he’s had enablers who’ve spread it: NYC tabloids, Burnett w/The Apprentice, Rush Limbaugh, talk radio, FOX, Newsmax, now the GOP. These voters ignorantly help spread it.
I recall Alabama governor Fob James in the 1990s saying that state government should be run like a business. Not just any business either, but a Waffle House.
That's our Fob! He served two terms in my lifetime. One as a Dixiecrat-style Democrat in the late 1970s. Then he rebranded himself as a Republican and got elected again in the 1990s.
We aren't sending our best to Washington, nor Montgomery.
Everything t touches ☠️💀☠️. He will bankrupt this country, drive everyone not already a billionaire into poverty, shatter our economy & there will be need again for refrigerator trucks & mass gr@v€s.
Professional mental healthcare experts say he is incapable of empathy & a sadist.
The guy who was initial head of marketing for The Apprentice talked about that. It was a major problem for him, since Trump was the only CEO who would do the show, and because they had to make him look like this skilled businessman for the show to work, and he was a mid-rate real estate dud.
I have heard people say it comes from his game show where he played a character that made good business decisions. But I don't know why reality hasn't set in for these people.
Because many people confuse reality TV with reality. When it first came out I was a practicing journalist. My spidey sense told me that it was dangerous for that very reason. The search for truth is exhausting; most people refuse to do it. Sometimes I hate being right.
Right? But consider this: legacy media has helped Republicans hold onto a mythical reputation of being "good for the economy" and "the party of fiscal responsibility" despite DECADES of evidence undercutting that reputation.
It's beyond frustrating to be sane in this political media environment.
Not just the bankruptcies, but there were numerous stories when he was first running in 2020 about how he cheated people and ripped them off on a routine basis. And he STILL filed for bankruptcy multiple times.
Also the “businesses” that they pretended to run on the show were never anything more complex than lemonade stands, and at least half of them were clusterfucks.
And Trumps only role in the whole thing was yelling at people and firing them.
It is funny that there is literally a thing in financial markets called “the presidential puzzle” which is the finding that the stock market consistently does significantly better under a democratic administration (not claiming it is causal): https://youtu.be/gY225CEObO4?si=a2ZsCUHn3-E5ntms
Low-information voters watched a game show and believed in the caring, successful businessman they saw on it. Since then they have watched Fox and inhabited Twitter, where they have been reassured that, despite every train wreck, that guy really does exist.
This is why I think it's bad/stupid to fight every one of his policies. The myth among his supporters and apologists is that the "problem" in his first term was that Democrats were fighting him every step of the way, starting with wanting to impeach him before he even took office.
Reality? These people not only don’t want to deal with reality, it’s now a badge of honor to say I don’t care about reality, I get to think what I want. Arrogant ignorance at this volume is powerful, and it’s now running the country.
They at the very least aren't super smart because I watched every episode of that and he was lazy in a way that made him easy to manipulate. The only thing else notable about him was he was openly horny toward the women
The problem with that is that he made horrible business decisions on that show. All of his decisions were ratings and brown nose based. Not how things are done when you are a leader of a SUCCESSFUL business. A real businessman pays his contractors too. His life is a con and the reds eat it up.
I watched that show all the time -- He NEVER made good business decisions! He fired people based on what remaining group would make the best TV, so the incompetent loose cannons always stayed on. Plus he loved to pit the men against the women and praised only the men when they "won".
Because that's what they know. They don't do politics. They do twitter, instagram and tik tok. Him on TV is reality to them. Although he's a moron and worse,an evil one, he figured that out before anyone else. The Democrats still haven't, hence Biden 2. We can only hope he doesn't last long.
Counteries are not businesses. I think that running it like one is beyond stupid. I am not an employee of the USA. If that is the case, I would quit and apply to be employed by Canada, which has much better healthcare benefits and summer weather!
I post this article in response to this very question all the time. It's both fascinating & enraging, but it's a good (necessary) read to understand how the producers of The Apprentice fooled *everybody* into believing this. They *all* knew they had to sell/turn-out a con: https://slate.com/culture/2024/05/donald-trump-news-2024-trial-verdict-apprentice.html
The fact that NBC & Burnett made everyone working on the show (*everyone*, from highest level to lowest level) sign 20 year NDAs after Trump was signed to it says all you need to know. They knew what they were going to have to do. They consulted a famous "gentleman thief" from Las Vegas to help ffs.
Also, Burnett has long ties to Russia, and did before shopping The Apprentice. Once you realize the show was also Russian funded, that went on far longer than anyone at NBC planned for (they turned out their pig v. well & Americans love their trashy reality TV), it's even more sinister.
What are you talking about? The Apprentice aired from 2004 to 2017. TFG announced his presidential run in 2015 & won his nomination & election in 2016—8 years ago. The show had hugee cultural relevance in the USA & is directly credited w/helping TFG win the R nomination & eventually the presidency.
Even in the 2024 election, there are people who talk about what a good businessman he is & how that will make him a great president & that's because they saw him (or clips of him) on The Apprentice. These are 20-somethings who were toddlers when the show debuted. That *whole myth* is from that show.
1/2 The media have always portrayed him as wealthy, but a joke, without once asking how such a blustering, spectacular failure was able to support his lifestyle for years, because he was an easy cultural reference. NYT, Forbes, Macy’s, Pizza Hut,
2/2 NBC - & even Spy, while the most critical, stopped short of exposing his full RICO corruption. He was their useful idiot for ratings & eyeballs on Page 6.
And there's the answer - his voters are 100% SUBjective.....they "feeeel" like Dump is better. They give zip zero credence to actual information. It's pathetic and frightening.
The government is not a business and can’t be run like one.
Trump is failed at everything he does except to fool the fools. Even if he was a successful businessman, it would not work to run the government that way.
Oh oh, I know the answer to this one! They saw "successful, tough guy businessman Donald Trump" on TV! We are all trapped in this reality thanks to NBC.
Yes Rs pull the “run it like a business” line constantly. Yet Trump gave a tax cut without reduced spending. I don’t know many businesses that lower their prices when their costs stay the same. So it seems Rs can’t run governments nor can they run businesses.
The power of myth! His only success (prior to conning the electorate) was playing an EDITED version of a character on a unscripted reality tv show. And these people will willingly believe the myth because it was easier than voting for a Black South Asian woman for president.
He was on a TV show that portrayed him as some kind of rich successful businessman. That's all it takes to convince the idiots of the country. Apparently....
The guy who thought up the programme said he was looking for an actor to play the role of successful businessman but realised he could get pretend successful businessman Orange Shitler for less money because he was on the bones of his arse & believes his own hype
Yep, they saved his arse but it only served to reinforce his inflated sense of self-importance that everyone believed the hype too. & the programme gave him national brand recognition on their tvs every week for 12 series. Couple that with BS Maga slogans & here we are
But what they don’t realize is that you can’t run a government like a business. Their goals and purposes are completely different. Businesses are there to make money. Governments exist to help people. Trump has also proven he sucks at running BOTH! 🙄
That's coming from people who believe Trump has any intention of making the healthcare situation any better for US citizens. People so completely uneducated and out of touch with reality they're incapable of even understanding they're literally voting for the opposite of what they really want.
Let’s normalize the idea that the purpose of government is to serve and protect its people NOT exploit them and make them fodder for others who would exploit them.
He bankrupted a fucking casino. You either need to do that intentionally or be really really terrible at business. He's been bankrupt multiple times. If he had taken the $ he got in inheritance & just put it in an interest bearing account, he'd have more money today than he currently does.
He succeeded by paying himself first, and refusing to pay his sub-contractors whenever possible. It's a greed first approach on full display now, and largely ignored by those who worship him.
The amount of people that says a biz/corp are in it for themselves and don’t care about the people only getting richer want this guy to run the country like a biz/corp? Mmmkk 🤔
There's a whole world of fan fiction masquerading as "official" sources painting him as a good businessman and building the narrative that any evidence of the contrary is a fabrication.
The #Cultoftrump has no critical thinking or deductive reasoning skills, lacks empathy, and most certainly does not understand how government works. Period.
No we are not. We know what to expect and can mitigate it. These folks will be totally lost and confused.All we have to do is let trump be himself. He’ll do all the work for us. We have to help them back into reality and out of the cult they are in.
BTW I just told someone Stranger in a Strange Land is my favorite book, but also love all the books with Lazarus, starting with Time Enough for Love, of course.
Oh dang it, I've gone off-topic again. Sorry about that: carry on. 😊
Oh, gosh, I don't agree with everything he wrote either! But since I've read everything he wrote, I can see the arc of his progress over the course of his career and life. And what he really wanted was to make us think for ourselves, to throw out preconceived notions and prejudices. Worked for me. 🙂
Education is the answer. These people just don’t know. They have been sold the lies and now will see the results. I have learned that most folks listen to what they hear and devalue experience. 45 is an abusive criminal who will take advantage of all of us, especially those who voted for him.
The education system is failing and failing to teach about propaganda and vetting sources and how to use the damn internet with some discernment. These are willingly ignorant people tho you are absolutely right. You can show them evidence of their confusion and they will stick to that shit like glue
Maybe this is why MD stays blue? I know students in MD are taught this. It’s in the curriculum and I’m pretty sure all schools teach about primary sources…
I want that to be true but with prayer going into public schools in multiple states and financial incentives to adopt Christian revisionist history like just happened in Texas, I’m afraid that our trust in curriculum may be misplaced in many places.
Education, I agree. The factual rebuttal was right under their noses. The underlying causes for their opinions have little to do with reason and knowledge. They are emotionally driven.
Lord I’ve tried with conservative friends for three years using love and reason. The only became more trenchant and vitriolic with time. Hard to move fear and hate. Very sad.
You may want to look at “bypassing,” which I don’t know much about but saw in passing and the idea is basically you don’t try to disprove their arguments, but go past them to something that might resonate from a different angle. But yes, evolution (it’s better to be safe than right) is stubborn!
I see people keep saying this but there are people with PhDs that voted for him. Clearly, education isn’t the answer. Maybe it’s part of a solution but people of all education levels have the potential to be brainwashed.
And it often gets into some not great places with white women tending to have the highest some college/AS/BS and higher degrees tend to still be heavily white. (and this changes quite a bit on how Jews are counted)
I don’t disagree. But I’m guessing that there are more white men with PhDs than white women. I think (hope) that could possibly change in the future but not in the near future… especially with the current Supreme Court and incoming admin.
Yeah, I haven't looked at the stats recently, and there are of course some complications. Like a lot of things there are big gaps in when they or family immigrated, massive differences between communities, especially Asian ones (Japenese vs Laotian), how Jews & Middle-Eastern counted or not, etc
I believe it was fake news Fox that dumbed everyone down. It’s a propaganda station that about half of the country watches. Fake Fox News is the problem!
"Hee runs the country like a business"...
Yepp, like the Trump casinos, akademy, vodka, steaks, airline, etc. Or does the poster mean that the US should pay their debts like Trump paid his lawyers?
Or any of his contractors. I can’t imagine doing business with that man as he is likely to stiff you. Vindictive and bullying and thick skulled. Nothing we didn’t know in the 80s about him. He has been a POS forever
This was exactly my Trumper cousin’s take. I asked him about the 6 business bankruptcies. Of course my cousin didn’t even know about that. And his wife claimed it was “fake news”
Wow. Four different and equally delusional takes. I don’t know how he does it, but he keeps them loyal and confused. I don’t know how people can get this far away from the truth. How does this happen?
Worse, they are propagandized in a lot of instances. Its like negative education. It makes you dumber than where you started. Like Fox News viewers were known to be less informed than people who watched no news. This is just a bigger example. These people are getting their brains melted by Rogan.
You mean the same system that 19 states have declared war on, weakening licensing systems, loading curriculum with political bullshit and banning books and words that dare encourage critical thinking?
Not blaming schools or teachers. Consider: For 25 years, private foundations, fed and state govts have poured money (and testing) into math, literacy, and science. At all levels, social studies and history have suffered (esp k-5). Yet that's where ppl learn critical thinking and new lit.
Skills are things you learn in school too, and yet in this decades-long age of school accountability, I know of few tests that look at the skills to distinguish rhetoric from reality. Sadly, we've learned that what isn't tested/measured isn't taught.
That’s the most annoying part. You literally don’t need media spin to make Trump look bad, listen to the shit he says entirely of his own volition that they defend
“They’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs”
‘Ok well what he meant there is he’s going to implement some insightful policy..’
It pains me that this is reality. The utter stupidity. Even the idiotic fashion has come true with Crocs. Literally chosen as part of the costume design for their ridiculous look.
Mike Judge, wherever you are, please make a sequel and make it stop 🥺🙏🐊
This past election does make me yearn for technocracy. Why yes I would like to be governed by people who know how things work. No I doubt think reality TV stars who can rizz up the idiots should float into power through "entertainment value" or whatever they voted on.
There's always been stupid people.. the problem is the opposition, there is none. Where an opposing ideology, party & platform should be is instead occupied by the democrats
Agreed. Isn’t that their goal? I mean, they’re not even covert about it anymore. Trump’s conservatives and Project 2025 actively aim to defund public schools.
This is something we can work with. If people are low information, incapable of understanding macroeconomics and need to see politicians fighting for them, we have been running the wrong kinds of campaigns and can run different ones.
On some level, reacting to this with despair and the impulse to give up is an understandable emotional reaction. But it isn't an informed one. In order words, it's a smaller version of the emotional reaction we're judging here and if we give up or refuse to change tact then it's just as harmful.
Believing that you can reason with people who cannot be reasoned with is not an informed reaction. It means you're just as disconnected from reality as these people.
If you run the numbers, Trump isn't even a popular figure. He doesn't have positive net approval. We can absolutely work with that. People want a reason to not support him.
I think it's uncomfortable and risky to change tact so we are predisposed to not try. But I think it makes a lot of sense.
Your point was these people can be reasoned out of a fantasy. Trump's "positive net approval" is irrelevant. There is no campaigning that will change the minds of people who choose to ignore reality for what they've invented.
Also keep in mind that these are most likely people who only think about politics like three times every four years. We only need to capture their attention and enthusiasm for that very small window.
Democracy shouldn’t be our desire for it was not our design. It’s the ones who care for our nation, who vote to keep our Republic & it’s freedoms. The indoctrinated believe in democratic government & limiting freedoms.
And lazy. Don't forget lazy. Lots of people not willing to read about how things work or policies for 5 minutes even with the internet in their pockets. Instead base it off of feels and what others tell them (not even media). They don't want to be bored or feel uncomfortable for any amount of time.
If you believe obviously incorrect things that can easily be checked, and persist in believing them for years despite the best efforts of other people to point out how factually wrong you continue to be, then you absolutely deserve to be called stupid. Because that's fucking stupid.
I do. I voted for Harris because I didn't want Trump to be president. I also see the legitimate reasons people voted for him. A lot of people feel that their concerns weren't being addressed. I'm sure that if people weren't pouring across the border, she would have stood a better chance.
Your first reply was true at least- you aren't playing stupid like conservatives tend to. You have voluntarily chosen to blame your problems on immigration because you are an insecure person who needed a scapegoat, so you sought out rhetoric that confirmed your biases.
denying climate change makes you stupid, voting for a serial cheater makes you stupid, ignoring science makes you stupid, so yes, trump supporters are fucking stupid
A well crafted and sealed propaganda machine can fool even the most "intelligent" and "educated."
Think about the composition of the US- often immigrants from elsewhere. Survivors. Innovators. Not stupid people. Isolated, fed lies repeatedly.
It worked in Germany.
It's psychology and corruption.
Being raised around conservatives, I know that the truth is worse than "stupidity". They treat minorites badly & craft or seek out rhetoric to justify it, because they are selfish people. They pretend to be stupid to avoid accountability. If you fell for it, understandable, a lot of people seem to.
It's easier to accept that a conservative relative might just be Stupid, rather than Selfish or even Cruel. But, you eventually have to accept the truth. Bigots have deep personal flaws and insecurities, and thats why cruel, racist and self-serving rhetoric appeals to them. They're dangerous people.
It’s shocking to see how little these people are. Everything they said is wrong but it’s obvious they didn’t read anything that disputes Fox News or any non-rightwing news. All of this is just repeating what they hear from Fox. Most can’t be backed by facts!
They were suckered by a felon!
Every single bit of that is wrong. Smart? His IQ is 73 - that’s classified as an “idiot”. He drove the economy into the ground. Biden did very well trying to fix it. He bankrupted six of his businesses. What are these people smoking?
I saw a document that stated that. It says it’s verified. It might be fake, however, he is really unintelligent, so it seems real. There may not be a way to verify this, however, until it’s proven false, I’m sticking with it. The man knows next to nothing, and thinks he knows everything.
Snopes listed something else that was based on verified facts (like six months ago, as “false”. I don’t trust these sites much anymore. I think the Nazis might have gotten their hands on those sites too. I’m positive his IQ is really low. It might not be that low, but it’s close.
Snopes has its own agenda, to be sure. I’ve so far seen anything verifiable regarding his IQ, although I would believe a lower number rather than a higher one.
Partially. Also due to a propaganda machine of unrivaled size and influence, and a mainstream media unwilling to do their jouranalistic duty, who normalize him and his constant lies.
We were cooked the second all the major media outlets started desperately selling us the lie that his absolutely insane and unhinged takes were just as equally valid and grounded as practical policy. Imagine calling yourself a journalist while rage baiting for views and clicks. No integrity.
Look at the owners of any media outlet. Most have changed hands in the last 10 years- and some like Politico in the last few. Strategic buys for the audiences that trusted them.
And independent journalism have been shut down in that same time too, truthdig and thinkprogress are just a couple. And others that are still around like propublica and mother jones are censored by search engines.
I don’t understand how so many people have so many wrong ideas about him. Information on his words, policies, and crimes is easy to find. Are people really THIS lazy? So lazy that they can’t do a few seconds of Googling?
Boring interview. "Because she's not a rapist felon that almost trashed the country the last time" is the number one answer, and anyone that didn't vote for Trump already knows that.
Nonsense. The country is so polarized. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who voted for Trump. I could find 14 Harris voters just on my small block.
I'm not of any cloth, but if there is a Christian god, it clearly put the devil in front of them as a test to see if they could tell the difference and they failed extraordinarily.
Same. Used to be a pretty strong Christian. Now I’m agnostic. Saw too many family/friends professing to be loving Christians who worshipped the guy. That started me questioning my faith and it proceeded from there.
The cognitive dissonance these people have is mind boggling. I mean, I understand that disinformation is a thing, but come the fuck on. 🤦♀️ How do they believe their own bullshit?! We already lived thru this shit before! How do they not remember?! Ugh!! 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤬🤬 Fuckity, fuck fuuuuccckkk!!🤦♀️🤬
Trump is great at manipulating, he blinded a group of ignorant people to the point that they see him as his saviour. Cult leaders always surprise me, they really know how to use people as pawns.
He knew the bigots needed a leader, so he claimed that spot
No. IQ shouldn't be a factor. Intelligence isn't the same thing as knowledge. Basic understanding of government and it's functions should be a requirement though.
See, here's where I'd disagree. A citizen can know the government has the ability to impose a tariff, but do they know what a tariffs *is* or the macro/micro impacts a tariff will have?
Yes but seeing this combined with how conservatives and far right folks have responded to the CEO shooting gives me hope that their cognitive dissonance is close to shattering. It's going to be horrible and I'm not willing to sacrifice anyone for future progress but I see it coming.
Also governments are not run like a business for a reason. Businesses are designed to make profit. Governments are designed to take care of its citizens. HUGE difference.
Same old they think the apprentice was real bullshit. I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. There likely won’t be an old white “businessman” with snake oil sales talents on the ticket again.
Best wishes to all of these idiots. They will learn.
They should not get to learn at the expense of the rest of the country, and themselves. If you're going to make mistakes and learn from them, at least limit the collateral damage to not 340 million people
Social media influencers and The war in Israel. Republicans say the most unrealistic shit but dems hold each other to account so there’s never a way to have a message. Some idiot has to hav ether point
Trump’s squad showed up in force in the big red counties. Biden stayed in too long. Elon, Rogan, Tucker all own the conversation. 40 years of de-funding education
I’ve heard crap like these quotes from my immediate family members. It’s real and people very much are this dumb. Planned dumbing down over decades ti get easy votes.
Yeah, it’s too bad in a lot red states conservatives constantly ban books and cut funding for education. I’m all for education but the general public in red states think it’s a scam lmao.
Oh, Is believe it. You should have heard the veteran in the ER who said vets were being put up in hotels, and how Cheetolini was going to fix everything. He doesn’t even know that TFG called soldiers “suckers and losers”.
There is not a strong Democratic Leader at this time. There is not strong messaging platform on legacy media countering mis-representation of truth as broadcast by Fox, OAN, …
The Democratic Party has a long road ahead.
I read this article this morning. I totally agree with your statement.
I don’t think these people spend much time flow what is going on in the world around them. It is as if their perspective on politics is made from well timed sound bites.
Fox and Right Wing programming is shaping the demographics.
When one side spends their time in office berating the opposition, while doing nothing. It is easy to mask failures. Post 4 years spent implying that everything that went/is wrong, even when it is not, is also down to the other side. Control or curtail that narrative, or the beatings will continue.
"I voted for him because I thought he was really smart....". That alone is enough to tell you that the average Dump voter has a shoe size with a greater number than their IQ. 🤦🏻♂️
This is the work of the right-wing media echo chamber. Fox Entertainment news, Newsmax, OAN, and too many other to name spread this misinformation. These lazy, uneducated morons believe every word they say. The right has worked very hard to keep the money flowing up to the rich.
Yeah, I mean, my question was sort of rhetorical. I just can’t get over how gullible and uninformed they are. I have to worry for the world when people are truly this stupid.
Seriously. There were phrases there (i.e. "he runs this country like a business") that were practically word-for-word things we've heard over and over again.
And they seem to ignore he’s run all of his businesses into bankruptcy. The only successful ventures are just branding deals, and someone else runs those businesses. His inheritance would have been better in a money market fund😜
Branding and showbiz + politics as show biz and social media (market cap not revenue). Looks like he was succesful with fraud using proxies as well. Looking like victim and fooling democrats to attack him and gaining sympathy was also something he was good at.
Yes and he was actually good with show biz. And misinformation. Harris/Waltz did not even bother explaining that they actually had inflation under control with low unemployment in the end and that other countries struggled more. Misinformation won the working class and information was not in focus.
Dems really don’t know how to drive a talking point the way reps do. They get one together and in hours it’s on the lips of every single pundit and supporters. We have to get better at this, and realize fair play isn’t it anymore
"Harris/Waltz did not even bother explaining that they actually had inflation under control with low unemployment in the end and that other countries struggled more."
It wouldn't have mattered. A majority of Black people heard the same bs but somehow managed not to vote for that orange cancer.
Meanwhile trump’s flag is flown alongside swastikas and he pins small women against walls, rips their underwear, and forces his hand between their legs.
Trump supporters are befouled.
They get their news from sites that promote “alternative facts”. And then proceed to call out “legacy media” for calling out their lies. These dimwits call it being cancelled.
Also their to stupid to realize something is fake.
Being able to educate yourself is a challenge and a privilege, apparently. And I say this in earnest.
Pretty sure there are not as many stupid people as there are folks who did not have curiosity cultivated in them and did not learn how to learn or be discerning and skeptical sans cynicism.
Only in my car. Otherwise I scare the cats. I just can’t believe how people can be so dumb!
Besides, he’s not my president. I live in Norway. Luckily my mum moved here from California as a kid, and never felt the need to move back after I was born.
One of mine, the one whose almost 16, is jumpy at screaming, yet comforting when he sees I’m in pain. 🩷The other one is an adorable idiot who doesn’t understand what’s happening. 😆
This is why I think eligible voters should have to pass a civics test b4 they can register to vote. And if you fail, you get fined....try again in two yrs
Maybe a civics exam that’s issued when registering, but it doesn’t affect eligibility, and people get offered some free courses at the end of the exam. Maybe an option for gamified learning tools.
Hmm, I like that. Still think there s/b a fine of some sort. I'm reminded of an MLK quote: "the two most dangerous things on the planet are sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
Fight fire with fire. The Dems have nothing like the right-wing propaganda machines the GOP has. They’re going to have to compete for hearts & minds on that level. I wish I could say I think education would help. As a former high school, adult ed, & university instructor, however, I don’t.
We need to embrace the creators and networks that are working gor democracy. Like the MeidasTouch network or Mueller, She Wrote. It's too bad we don't have 3 cable news networks that work for the dem party.
That propaganda machine is funded with the bottomless pockets of dark money. It isn't about education or lack of strategy. It's that a tiny group of people has been collecting wealth and power for a century, and they now control both the government and the media. Kings do not resign peacefully.
I think that is exactly what I’m saying. The GOP figured out a way to win, in spite of their atrocious policies that harm the people. The Dems haven’t figured out how to win, even though their ideas are better. Figuring out how to win is infinitely more important than having good policies.
I would struggle to bankrupt a casino, Trump managed to bankrupt 4 of them!!! What a genius!!!! These people are completely detached from reality, if they think Trump did a good job in the first term. He was a disaster!!
Leno used to do a "man on the street" thing where they'd ask random people in LA basic questions. I recall one where the question was "who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave" and they gave stoopit answers. But when asked "who lives in a pineapple under the sea?" they all knew Spongebob....
In Canada, we had a comedian, Rick Mercer who did segments called Talking to Americans. I think you can find most on youtube. It was pretty bad, but has gotten worse...much, much worse. The tribalism is unreal.
Got a similar vibe reading the nytimes magazine story about that town in Pennsylvania post election. Read similar quotes and just felt the need to stare out into the distance forever.
But the scariest part is THEY ARE NOT MORONS...
many are perfectly normal intelligent people who have repeatedly been fed a line of manufactured garbage with no counterpoint.
If they were capable of analytical thought, they wouldn't be so easily manipulated & controlled. They'd be asking questions re: why does this supposedly brilliant man think that tariffs will solve all our economic problems? How can such a successful businessman continue to beg us for $$$? Etc.
Agreed. You have to desperately want to believe republican lies so as not to vote for a democrat. I hear this all the time. “
I think she would be good but she’s a democrat so I can’t vote for her”
My grandfather didn't live to vote for Trump but he was a chemical engineer, and very well-read on a wide variety of topics in a way that made him a huge Rush Limbaugh fan.
Even more frightening is that they are intelligent people with critical thinking skills, but they use those towards nefarious ends because they're narcissistic and/or malignant sociopaths.
Seneca doesn’t realize she is describing Joe Biden to a t. He is the one who has taken on the big pharmaceutical companies and lowered prescription prices. He’s also the one that helped eliminate medical debt from many people’s records.
It helps that he's a liar. Some think he'll lower grocery bills and was lying about the mass deportation. Some think he'll deport millions and was lying about supporting Israel.
It's like a menu you can choose from because you know at least half of it is bullshit.
I agree but it’s so odd to me considering he doesn’t just lie in vague ways but with very specific details.
The person mentions healthcare and he specifically said “we’re signing a health care plan within 2 weeks” in 2020 that never materialized. Then “concepts of a plan” during the campaign.
Trump's superpowers are that he can be anything anyone needs him to be, so it's really hard for him to mess up as far as most voters are concerned; and also nothing sticks to him, even when he does mess up.
Donnie can never fail enough to be a failure, never rape enough women to be a rapist, nor commit enough crimes to be a criminal. In the eyes of his cult the orange turd is just a special little boy who can do no wrong.
I think his real superpower is simply that he gives a voice to the hate and bigotry that lies dormant deep in the souls of a lot of people. And people like that except they know it's bad, so they make up bs to justify why they like him, without sounding like a hateful and bigoted person.
Obama described his own political appeal this way as well. I think the candidate who looks like they'll change the system is the one with the advantage
Well, we all know why the vast majority of people who voted for Trump actually voted for him, so the word salads are just so they can pick and choose which words they can use to save face.
A lot of the blame should be placed on NBC for falsely platforming him as a business genius. A minute amount of digging proved otherwise. The first season aired the same year as his first casino bankruptcy filing, which should have killed the show, but instead went on for 9 more seasons.
maybe he was referring to prescription drug prices. I don't care who does it if prices can be lowered. Bernie is going after RFKjr and Trump to deliver on promises.
Exactly. I'd vote for the guy they think Trump is, too--someone courageous, compassionate, and anti-elitist. But WHY they believe the lies will forever mystify me.
Watched a grimly "that makes sense" video by economist Richard J Murphy who reckons Trump will crash the global economy on purpose to further enrich the super-rich. 😬 https://youtu.be/HRAfLJiH0qA?si=ZwcdzZhlaKtDLwnl
Just started following him myself after watching that video and finally understanding why Musk and Trump seemed so gleeful about the idea of crashing the economy. He also had a good one today about the real meaning of the birth of Christ.
Asset strip the USA and walk away. He's about to privatise everything, sell to highest bidder, defund govt services and insider trade for him and his cronies. Again.
The government has to fill the role if being an unbusiness and do the things that need to be done but have, or should have, zero profit margin. If you can make money at it, it’s a business. Why don’t people understand this?!?
Apartheid Boy was screeching about shutting down NGOs and other non-profits, apparently because he sees them as siphoning money he’d otherwise be grifting from the federal government. All in the name of “efficiency,” of course.
This is what happens when Fox News holds sway and other "news" organizations begin to compete on their terms for market share with the same propaganda and disinformation. This is what happens when the FCC loses all control and we let Oligarchs own the means of communication. Goodbye WAPO and NYT.
Churches are where white supremacy, patriarchy, homophobia, and antisemitism fester. That's the most consistent place people are indoctrinated into the right. That's where they brainwash their kids into the next generation of white supremacists.
Boggles the mind. He's clearly an hedonistic atheist, has been forever.
But they obey a moral code that they believe is supreme and perfected, they reject secular aims, Trump panders to them, they have shriveled egos so they fall in line.
It all depends on the social media you watch. The bits that they show make the other side look like morons, and when people see that, without fact checking… it is easily believable as truth.
Or that he's a good business man. Or that he cares about anyone.... the fact that anyone believes anything he says given his track record of lying .....
People do a lot of projecting on to people they hold favor for. They ascribe attributes unearned in their head cannon and then defend based on those made up narratives even when the exact opposite is true. It's really wild.
I told this to my brother who recently got re-baptized and my brother laughed at me and said he is the picture of Christianity. I disowned my brother that day.
Years of propaganda from Fox “News” and online media bias towards the truth has effectively brainwashed people into thinking up is down and left is right. These people are not evil, just victims of constant bullshit being fed to them.
1/2 Victims of self inflicted and willful ignorance and/or stupidity. We have far more to fear from stupidity than evil. Dietrich Bonhoeffer argued that stupidity is worse than evil because stupidity can be manipulated and used by evil.
2/2 He also argued that stupidity tends to go hand-in-hand with acquiring power — that is, being in power means we surrender our individual critical faculties.
“Evil” may not be the right word, but neither is “victims.” I’m not letting them off the hook that easily. They greedily line up at the trough to consume the bullshit, and that’s on them.
When one hears fascist rhetoric as an adult and chooses to believe it, that makes one a "victim"? That would only make sense if people entirely lacked accountability for their own behavior, it seems.
You interviewed crackheads on bath salts about why they voted for Trump??? Why? We know why they did it. Cuz they hate women, people of color, and anyone/thing that gets between them and their crack pipe.
If the rest of the world doesn’t realize they’re fucked, then they’re even more fucked than I thought. When the US economy tanks, there will be a huge impact worldwide. When the environment deteriorates to the point where it’s impossible to prevent escalating global warming, borders won’t save you.
thank you. people outside the u.s. don't realize how fucking detrimental just these next few years alone are going to be for everyone. we just happen to be the current center piece of it all.
Sorry, but many of us outside of the US do realise what is happening and how affected the whole world will be. Trump is a very dangerous man who could destroy the US in the same way Boris Johnson did in the UK. Believe me, the world isn't laughing at the US. We are very, very concerned.
that's good. unfortunately, i have seen a few people who aren't, but hopefully they'll come to their senses. i think the best thing we all can do is find ways to prepare for the shitshow we're about to face.
Take Kentucky WV or Miss. low income high poverty lack of education. All of these states depend on Chip and federal benefits. Yet they vote red for some odd reason. They love free money. I always go back to the Whites of WV documentary. https://spotlightonpoverty.org/states/west-virginia/
My post is not to pick on people I don’t want to punch down. But people will vote against the best interests of all to keep a perceived power. There is no power, those people are why you are stuck. No job creation, horrible healthcare, minimal educational funding. Power/wealth does not trickle down.
Is stupider the proper usage of that word? Are you saying I'm dumb because I'm not sure? Maybe I should have voted for Trump but I couldn't because I hate the color ORANGE and DISGUSTING POS!
Teachers are overridden by poor administrations and aggravating idiot parents like the folks mentioned in OPs post. We are lucky anyone with morals and ethics even tries to enter the profession anymore
Work harder. Just kidding. I wonder how many additional years of intense schooling under the best educators it would take to straighten these dumbasses out.
I watched when my son was in k-12. More students every year, less funding, more no child left behind, higher expectations with no support. We’re seeing the consequences.
GOP targeted school board runs early in Trump’s presidency = the skirmishes over masks/COVID we saw on MSM. Teachers’ influence over young minds & those kids are voting now
I legit think this is part of his strategy. Convince them you’re a man of the people, don’t talk about your plans, and then let them fill in the blanks with plans they like so they make themselves an excuse to vote for someone who hates women/minorities/poors as much as they do
Agreed. Without the ability for people to actually think for themselves ... what a slow disaster I've watched these past 50 years. Any time we try to patch it... Republicans come in and gut it. Blue States barely hanging on, red States lead the idiocy category.
There's a reason "The dumbing down of America" was a popular topic over twenty years ago. Conservatives Know how to play the long game. It actually goes much deeper than that but there's not enough time to go down that rabbit hole.
well no the basic problem. this country is a really bad electoral process. we need better voting methods like approval, voting and score voting, and ideally a transition to election by jury so voters actually know what the hell they're voting on.
There’s always been an issue meanwhile countries like China have massive 99% literacy rate almost every single citizen of theirs is extremely educated meanwhile here these right wingers want to destroy education and soon they’ll be shocked on why the United States is behind everyone else
Data published by the geographic data and statistics website World Atlas confirmed that the U.S. was ranked 125th with a literacy rate of 86%, just after Oman and just before the Syian Arab Republic 🫢.
There's more to education than literacy. Chinese students think they beat Japan in World War 2. State control of education and propaganda is not the solution.
But conservatives do want state control of education. They want to impose the same rigorous control over what children learn that the Chinese government does. Especially when it comes to history.
The United States is literally the chief propagandist in the world. Something they picked up from the British. I’m not excusing China at all. This country has been brainwashed, too think that trickle down economics in everything that conservatives do are good.
Americans are among the most entitled and out of touch people that I have ever existed and I’m saying this as an American the rest of the world literally hates us because we think we’re the good guys. They literally looked down on us for various reasons.
Conservatives believe that the world is all Christianity and white people anything else that goes against? That is the antichrist? This is exactly why these morons keep losing people like them have been responsible for the destruction of every civilization.
China is not only the second biggest superpower in the world today, military and economically their prime to surpass the US over the next few years and Donald is gonna be doing is going to let them watch the decoupling of the West and the rest of the world from America in real time
I haven't fact checked your claim about Chinese literacy rates but, if true, then that's a scary comparison with US literacy rates at 79%. How did the nation that put a man on the moon and develop the Internet fall so far behind?
Part of a plan.
This is why we didn't know about Ukraine, and why so many US citizens don't see history repeating itself- because in a single generation, history can be whitewashed.
so one can debate how many of these peoples ideas were pushed by what media, but you realize not a single statement that is quoted above was data based. Like there is no evidence "threatening" other leaders improves the economy for instance.
And Trump never "threatens" the right leaders, he pisses off the people he should be building relationships with (like the Pres of Mexico) and rolls over for autocrats.
these trolls LOVE being blocked
They brag about it
mute them so they can't get thru or just ignore them
Ignoring intentional ignorance is the easiest way to starve them off the platform
They believe what he says.
He repeats it ad nauseum...until they eventually parrot what he said - you can see his talking points in these voters' reasoning.
He talks about how smart he is, went to Wharton, Uncle went to MIT, successful businessman so of course he's super smart...
In other words, we didn't pay any attention to anything. We voted for a white male whose name we are familiar with even though he's a felon/older than dirt/insurrectionist over a woman/black woman.
This is literally the plan RFK Jr. has said he will pursue. Only he calls them 'farms'; where drug addicts can 'recover' and grow their own 'organic' food.
Goddammit I hate these classist takes. Now tell us about how "rednecks" have bad teeth (and then please explain how they're supposed to pay for dentistry)
People not so complicated they trust on the virtue of the authority held and not the actions of the person holding it to determent if the person should be trusted because they have virtue by the very fact of the authority they hold. Circular ingrained thinking, that starts in the living room.
Do not fall into the trap of writing political opponents off as stupid when they have been failed by their education system. Reform American educational institutions and if that somehow doesn't work then fine, they're dumb. Throwing around insults is pointless at best and counterproductive at worst.
It is true that facts can be checked and rechecked online, but if you have never been taught to do that how do you determine what information is reliable? Navigating the internet without media literacy skills is confusing and most would rather just throw up their hands and stop caring
I understand the sentiment behind what you're saying, but most people work eight hours a day and have other responsibilities more immediately pressing than verifying every piece of information the Internet bombards them with daily. This does not mean they are stupid or deserve to suffer.
Agreed. A major part of the antidote, in my view, is a competent, patriotic left-wing populist with similar anti-establishment cachet to Trump. Bernie tried, but he wasn't a good enough entertainer to overcome the machinery of the mainstream Democratic Party.
Well, maybe. But out of 245M eligible voters, only 77M voted for Trump. Now, 90M didn’t vote and that’s a huge problem, and I personally think is equally stupid, but I try to remember that Trumpers are just a loud minority.
The truth is far worse than stupidity. I've dealt with the type of people who vote conservative for many years and I know they feign stupidity, to hide something very important. They are just cruel and dangerous people who only seek out rhetoric that justifies their selfishness.
They aren't stupid, well at least not all of them. Most lost faith in the mainstream and began to listen to the fringe. The fringe would not be successfully with its message if it didn't add just enough suspicious "truth" to make their message seem more valid than reliable sources. They are lost.
Uh, literally every time we try to spend any amount of money domestically, to help citizens - infrastructure, healthcare, child tax credit, universal pre-K, the list is endless, really - it’s derided and dismissed as communism/socialism/some other inane thing.
Here's what you need to understand: When Democrats propose it, it's communism. When Trump proposes it, it's awesome and why hasn't any other politician proposed it?
This is what happens when billionaires control the news. It started with Murdoch and gradually became worse. Suddenly we don't trust it any more. Just like everything else...gradually then suddenly. i wonder how long it will take until America becomes a true version of The Handmaids Tale. 2 years?
Comments
The thing that’s changed is that people used to get their daily information from fairly credible network news and newspapers.
Now they get it from an an online information sewer.
But how people get information has changed far more in the last few decades than the basic structure of education.
Your point, that social media has undermined respect for schools and fostered cluelessness, reinforces.
In many countries it is unthinkable to graduate anyone from high school with less than a 5th grade reading proficiency.
Social media redefined news in a world quickly giving up intelectualism for masturbatory confimation bias.
Remember that many left it after they said Biden won the election.
I know those who went to News Max and then there were those who went to sites with even less credibility.
They are in my view worse than Fox.
Although you are right Fox and X are bad
But they don't care.
I care plus if my SS. But still these veterans deserve it all.
I can't believe this man which he isn't one would strip us all.
"My favorite part thing about Trump is that he 'runs the country like a business'.
"I hate our health care right now because it's run like a business"
"Trump (who I love because he runs things like a business) will fight the a health care system that's run like a business."
LOGIC!
Presenting statistics, facts and evidence won't weay them. You've got to work out how to he be shallow.
But yes, this isn't how you win elections
Never have so many been fooled by so few.
Putin has been laughing his ass off.
The rt wing propaganda was just flooding the zone with the whataboutism of the MSM.
Facts
People, collectively, are stupid.
What needs to be learned is how to simplify the messages and policies enough so they can still be informed citizens, without people feeling talked down to.
I really think we need to get our own house in order, if we want to win back the White House and actionable majorities in congress.
Here in the Boston area it’s so corrupt that they cannot even get the T to run anywhere near functionally acceptable. The trains are filthy, late, constantly breaking down, w/lawless employee reports.
Embarrassing
Biggest takeaway? Young white men are also important to winning elections, so might be worth acknowledging them and their needs.
Get out your fucking megaphones and start there Democrats!
It’s a huge opportunity to get the focus off of Trump and back on the real issues facing America.
(Reps aren’t going to do shit.)
The first is bitter rage.
Infantilizing people who support reactionaries is not something the Left should be doing.
Erich Fromm is on point about understanding why fascists are the way they are. I dunno who *these* people are but people do not support fascists because they are just confused innocent children.
We're not rational actors in the main, we can hope for some kind of wisdom of the aggregate.
It is, as has been said, the worst form of government excepting everything else we've come up with so far.
There's a REASON no one has polio anymore.
The sad thing is that you can’t even counter with facts because it’s all feelings to them.
Seems there’s no rationality left even to just make sense by looking what’s going around 🤦🏽♂️
Gosh! They r thick #Resist
I think a big part of that challenge is the basic structure of our legislature. Currently it tends to favor winner takes all.
1. Every vote needs a simple majority in the chamber, and each major party.
2. The gavel is held by alternating parties changing hands...
You quite literally can't run a Government like a business. Governments provide important services that are not profitable.
Businesses simply don't provide services that aren't profitable.
Too many times!
Oh wait. Is this serious??
We aren't sending our best to Washington, nor Montgomery.
Professional mental healthcare experts say he is incapable of empathy & a sadist.
Bankrupt Casinos
It's beyond frustrating to be sane in this political media environment.
https://www.tvinsider.com/1152164/the-apprentice-donald-trump-producers-behind-the-scenes/
It's frightening to see so many people out there who seem to have trouble distinguishing make-believe from reality. Terrifying, actually.
And Trumps only role in the whole thing was yelling at people and firing them.
Trump knew how to read the words “you’re fired” in a convincing way
And here we are.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - Mencken
.
https://slate.com/culture/2024/05/donald-trump-news-2024-trial-verdict-apprentice.html
Trump is failed at everything he does except to fool the fools. Even if he was a successful businessman, it would not work to run the government that way.
Republicans have done a successful Leveraged Buy Out of the USA.
Huuuuummm... LBO of the USA
No one in media will call these people low information voters.
The dummies have taken over. I look forward to seeing them get burned.
(Rhetorical question. I know the answer: they don’t understand.)
Also, profit for fucking who?
It grows more and more every day.
Or as Lazarus Long put it, "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
Scare people enough and they'll do anything.
BTW I just told someone Stranger in a Strange Land is my favorite book, but also love all the books with Lazarus, starting with Time Enough for Love, of course.
Oh dang it, I've gone off-topic again. Sorry about that: carry on. 😊
Democracy depends on people participating in civil discourse, which requires education.
You see where this is leading.
people ain't correcting these morons, and letting them be openly delusional without any pushback.
A lot ppl believe it’s real.
“I love the stupid!”
Good friggin grief🤦♀️
Yepp, like the Trump casinos, akademy, vodka, steaks, airline, etc. Or does the poster mean that the US should pay their debts like Trump paid his lawyers?
The more likely explanation is that they are misinformed, bigoted and lack the time or the skills necessary to distinguish rhetoric from reality.
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/social-studies-and-science-get-short-shrift-in-elementary-schools-why-that-matters/2024/02#:~:text=A%202023%20report%20from%20the,subject%20in%20grades%20K%2D5.
“They’re eating the cats, they’re eating the dogs”
‘Ok well what he meant there is he’s going to implement some insightful policy..’
‘Seriously? *sigh* well that means he’s good at business. I guess…’
“I’ll fix expensive groceries and gasoline. I’m gonna do tariffs!”
‘That’s… that’s literally the worst thing you could do, making everything more expensive for everyone and achieving nothing…..”
Mike Judge, wherever you are, please make a sequel and make it stop 🥺🙏🐊
This is something we can work with. If people are low information, incapable of understanding macroeconomics and need to see politicians fighting for them, we have been running the wrong kinds of campaigns and can run different ones.
I think it's uncomfortable and risky to change tact so we are predisposed to not try. But I think it makes a lot of sense.
2. do you make decisions on facts or opinions?
Think about the composition of the US- often immigrants from elsewhere. Survivors. Innovators. Not stupid people. Isolated, fed lies repeatedly.
It worked in Germany.
It's psychology and corruption.
So much changed in the French modeling industry since then.
2001 was a bad year for everybody.
They were suckered by a felon!
I was shadowbanned on every social media site.
First, go where there are educated people.
That’s pretty tough for the NYT, admittedly.
He knew the bigots needed a leader, so he claimed that spot
1-Primary
2-General
3-Senate runoff
Reality has left the chat
No business can actually run like that.
Or the mob.
Best wishes to all of these idiots. They will learn.
The Democratic Party has a long road ahead.
I don’t think these people spend much time flow what is going on in the world around them. It is as if their perspective on politics is made from well timed sound bites.
Fox and Right Wing programming is shaping the demographics.
Jumpsuit Assembler
Tax Preparer
Winch Operator
Systems Analyst
Glass Blower
Or something like that?
It wouldn't have mattered. A majority of Black people heard the same bs but somehow managed not to vote for that orange cancer.
that shut them up
Trump supporters are befouled.
Also their to stupid to realize something is fake.
Pretty sure there are not as many stupid people as there are folks who did not have curiosity cultivated in them and did not learn how to learn or be discerning and skeptical sans cynicism.
(Desperate insane laugh because the alternative is crying)
Besides, he’s not my president. I live in Norway. Luckily my mum moved here from California as a kid, and never felt the need to move back after I was born.
Your Mom was smart, you are safe 💜
We don’t want to have a poll tax…
https://bsky.app/profile/eguango.bsky.social/post/3lciv7m6gr22o
https://bsky.app/profile/lolgop.bsky.social/post/3lcxjauwmjc2u
many are perfectly normal intelligent people who have repeatedly been fed a line of manufactured garbage with no counterpoint.
I think she would be good but she’s a democrat so I can’t vote for her”
It's like a menu you can choose from because you know at least half of it is bullshit.
The person mentions healthcare and he specifically said “we’re signing a health care plan within 2 weeks” in 2020 that never materialized. Then “concepts of a plan” during the campaign.
They obviously don't watch mainstream news - otherwise they would know better.
A big chunk of Americans ignore news completely, or get it sporadically from TikTok, X, or YouTube where it is biased and partisan news.
A common reliable news platform is missing in America.
He does like them low informed
But they obey a moral code that they believe is supreme and perfected, they reject secular aims, Trump panders to them, they have shriveled egos so they fall in line.
Every time he claims to be a Christian, he is taking the lord's name in vain.
- Halo Effect
- Cognitive Dissonance
- Symbolic Interactionism
- In-Group Bias and Social Identity Theory
- Parasocial Relationships
- Confirmation Bias
- Pygmalion Effect…
Also lacking knowledge to make a sound reason.
“I love the stupid!”
I always wondered how much of the ADULT North American population thinks that as well...
https://bsky.app/profile/vgmk.bsky.social/post/3lcprxqumrc25
Whatever you want to tell yourself, Rick
With the rising anti-intellectual fervor and decreasing budgets in the U.S. I laud anyone who is committed to educating others
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
Obama gave healthcare. Therefore Obama = big woke healthcare corporation.
Trump will kill Obamacare. Therefore, trump fight big woke healthcare corporation.
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics#:~:text=Top%2010%20U.S.%20Literacy%20Rate,literacy%20below%20sixth%2Dgrade%20level.
This is why we didn't know about Ukraine, and why so many US citizens don't see history repeating itself- because in a single generation, history can be whitewashed.
They brag about it
mute them so they can't get thru or just ignore them
Ignoring intentional ignorance is the easiest way to starve them off the platform
For ex, to support the stolen election lie, Fox News claimed repeatedly that voting machine companies had a role in 2020 election fraud.
This was a LIE.
And Fox had to pay almost $780 MILLION to Dominion because of it.
He repeats it ad nauseum...until they eventually parrot what he said - you can see his talking points in these voters' reasoning.
He talks about how smart he is, went to Wharton, Uncle went to MIT, successful businessman so of course he's super smart...
He's a conman.
A high school education (or less).
Which explains why they think he's smart.
Not to be unkind but these are the people who get sucked into MLMs and 29% APR loans.
Ignorance nowadays is entirely malicious. Being an idiot today is a choice, rather than a circumstance.