One of the things that's really hobbling older liberal leadership, Bernie included, is this reflex they have to show broad mindedness by using a kind of corporate version of Rogerian argument, where you always begin by acknowledging common ground or points of agreement you share with your opponent
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“We all want to see our loved ones thrive.” Is different than “America is indeed under siege.”
One shows humanity, the other validates. I’d hate to see libs go full contempt as we have enough of that, and it’s dangerous.
But...I HATE that certain Dem politicians are DANCING on Tik Tok to pander to low IQ voters. I get it..they need votes but it's embarrassing.
If you have a point of view, an argument to make, a policy to advance...advance it.
You don't "gotta hand it to them." Just say what you're for.
And this approach is anathema to your (already persuaded) base who want to see you *fight*.
Which is two skeets to say I agree.
This approach disarms ppl and keeps them open long enough to listen to an argument w/o sounding like an argumentative crank
And it's proof that they don't understand the current media environment.
He said in an interview he wasn't planning on supporting a challenge to Schumer.
All this energy will go nowhere and people will be funneled back into the Democratic Party that gave us Trump twice.
Older Congress, yes.
STOP! Savage them with Aristotlelian arguments
or blow them away with Toulmin.
(2/)
😂
But it would take a 1932 style sweep.
It would take a 1932-type sweep and Democrats brave enough to wipe away the effects of the Powell Memo and Project 2025.
Statehood for PR & DC, 6 more strong progressive justices, etc.
Any rational interaction maintains a bridge for them back from fascism.
A very narrow & frail span, sadly.
Tho there are few if any Republicans even willing to say there could be common ground, many Dems fall in the Center-Right and could be allies.
Set the restraints aside and strike at the causes for all the things in life that are rationed, that we need to live.
HE SUCKS AS A LEADER, HE SUCKS AS A PERSON & HE SUCKS AS A REPRESENTATIVE.
HE is a main reason Hillary didn't have leftist support, fuck Bernie and FUCK BERNIE BROS too.
We could have had a different country but for Bernie the fuckface Sanders
Taken to an extreme it's unwitting sanewashing
Ignore that one directly causes the other. You have to pledge allegiance before offering a critique.
"The beast cannot be reached, because it does not understand human language. The beast must be subdued."
-Anatol Rapoport, 1969, about the Johnson administration and the Vietnam War.
"We both want the same thing, to combat government waste," is both not helpful and makes a false assumption: that they're engaging with you in good faith to do that.
https://bsky.app/profile/spm1961.bsky.social/post/3ll35msogxs2e
Draw. No. Quarter.
IF THEY PRETEND TO HAVE A PRINCIPLE, IT IS A MANIPULATION TACTIC. THEY WILL DROP IT THE SECOND IT IS NOT BENEFICIAL TO THEM.
THEY WANT MORE THAN YOU, PERIOD.
- kindhearted, hard working and incredibly gullible fools
- crafty and clever bastards who will burn the world for a bigger slice
The number of people who don't fall into one or the other is like, a tiny tiny fraction
Oh my fucking God, NO YOU DON'T!!! You don't have to give credit to clearly evil people.
Other than that, seems like agreeing on concept followed by ripping into their implementation might not be bad though?
I guess part of me would just like to see us reclaim the subverted meanings of words related to democracy that they constantly toss around
You can't talk this stuff away. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They will not listen to logic or facts as their worldview is literally to hate coherent facts.
You can force them to relent by ostracism (e.g. cut ties with family and friends) and by ridicule.
Some people need to be shocked to see the wonder of a really good long term scam unfold because we have a few levers that know a few tricks in the town?
You think funding is the only way to jerk the science chain? there are other currencies. Ask her!
I say 'energy' because most people don't even know anything about parties or candidates. They vote on vibes, and they don't like yours. Clearly, evidenced.
Frustrating
but all they end up doing is repeating "defund + democrats" in commercials they plaster all over TV. or reinforce that the border *is* a problem. ah thanks
AND refuse to back down from that position. When he says he's not, just stone wall like "There's a hood in his closet and we all know it"
And we lost.
Btw, ask Cubans who they voted for.
You have to actually mean it; hostile refusal to appear on stage with them specifically because they're racist.
Every single interview; "MAGA are evil racist KKK monsters." Don't "work with" ANY KKK members(republicans) at all, zero, nada, persona non grada.
you need to raise Arlen Specter if you want a magic bullet
people will vote for people with convictions
Dems need to get NON voters & haven't pulled many GOP voters in 20 yrs (4% defected from each side in '24)
to get non voters, try not looking like a rug
cuz I didn't just make this up&
because I'm gonna trust the scientist that's done double blind studies over some guy on the intertubes or "common sense"
sorry but that's my process
here I'll get you started https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communications-that-matter/202401/how-to-change-someones-mind-according-to-neuroscience?msockid=1fe6d8e10b016ad63250cc610a216b75
Interpersonal discussion is fundamentally different from mass propaganda.
if you had made a more precise point I would've responded to you in kind
When your politician flip flops on something important to you, e.g. trans rights for me they THINK they're more likely to change minds of the other side but at the same time they are alienating me and people like me.
Pointing out logic not advocating
I will note that all fish like different lures and they have a pinky finger's of relevant neurons
I don't LIKE it, but there is SCIENCE behind it
but I think it's so much easier than anyone makes it as I may have said farther up thread
people respect people who believe things more than people who believe whatever pollsters tell them to blieve
Dems are VERY bad at this
ie Joe Rogan's left to right pipeline: start with the common ground (basic generic media and sports interests) and use it to build rapport and get the mark to embrace your worse ideas.
Seems like the left just opposes anything that could work.
if they didn't look like any 7 yr old girl could & would run roughshod over them, Dems might be more competitive on other aspects
or maybe this is entirely rhetorical & you're picking some kind of semantic bone
idk & not sure why I should care "dude"
have fun!
And the reason they get beaten up is bcz they don’t have the comms infrastructure nor knowledge how to use it to turn the tables
Eg, they could begin by saying that we all want XYZ for
In a contentious town hall, on such matters, it’s actually pretty easy to shift the Overton window to public goods/public private partnerships/private, a mixed economy.
But it requires comms infrastructure and REPETITION.
y'all keep digging this hole of "we're 100% correct" while being demonstrably wrong
like it's why you have no actual mainstream support for revolution
all y'all need to do is "yes, drain the swamp INCLUDING DONALD"
but ya can't
there's corruption in healthcare, academia, media, etc. It's fucking obvious
but y'all are paid for by people who don't want that to change
Christian White Nationalism - Nazism
Detention center - Concentration camps
Detainees locked on buses without food, water, or access to restrooms - torture
Detainees starving to death - execution
To name a few.
I agree what people are unfamiliar with they often have trouble accepting, but over time with the right kind of exposure and encouragement change will occur.
My head can also be removed by a guillotine.
Let us begin there.
but in this specific instance he just granted a bunch of right wing talking points without follow through
It took over 8 years to convince my father to stop backing Trump and that was 8 years of all of his children, his wife, his brother, and several close friends constantly telling him how everything he was 1/2
…all useless against these troglodytes
Often the person finally can see it from a different angle without it being divisive or polarizing
All to benefit the first felon and the war criminal.
The first mafiosi caves with blowback. Call your congressmen, protest, volunteer, donate.
I find action helps my fears. Supporting independent journalism. The Tennessee holler is the bomb!
I'm more interested in the 534 other members of Congress who *still* cannot manage #MedicareForAll a phrase the Senator from Vermont, equally inelegantly as regards your observation, introduced.
I'll take substance I can afford over style that shortened my life by a decade or more.
They’re manufacturing a Trump “rival” for cable and the Sunday talking heads.
We’ve learned nothing from 2016, etc.
Similar issue with Gavin N having terrible humans on his podcast Cut it out! You’re expanding thier platform and legitimacy The idiom of no such thing as bad press has unfortunately proven to be accurate