Are there studies establishing hand size variance by race? By ethnicity? When we say “Chinese”here, do we mean Han Chinese? Or are we suggesting hand size is a function of national identity? Have we established any kind of link between finger size and phone construction performance?
Comments
So much about that abstract has me gasping in horror.
Go to a random Beijing street and it's a good chance everyone there (who's not a tourist) is Han.
It's only worth going into specifics of "Chinese" if we're talking about non-Han.
If mainland Chinese has about 1.4-1.5 billion citizens, with women about half the population, that’s about 700-750 million women….so go down further….ages 15-30 that’s about 33-40%….too much variation to say “small” for any body part.
Some people did answer her question about a valid connection between hand size and performance.
I answered a different question.
“just asking questions” was not her point in gaining insight. She wanted The NY Times to reflect on their poor choices.
Tucker loves his “just asking questions” with an agenda.
It's racist to assume people know things about a different country because of their ethnicity.
I think we all can agree that non-Asians saying to American-/UK-/Canadian-/etc born Asians that all/most Asians are good at math by virtue of them being Asian is just as racist as if the spoken to was born and grew up somewhere in Asia.
So spare me your dishonest broker shtick.
That said, I can confirm that for certain medical device manufacturing quality control jobs, it is a legitimate advantage to have small fingers. Hire for INDIVIDUALS with them. 🤦🏼♀️
Nope, still would have been a super weird lede
I was just responding to the latter question of whether there was any empirical evidence that small fingers even matter for certain kinds of assembly/QC jobs.
For whatever reason, women have a much higher risk of CTS
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/carpal-tunnel-syndrome
but like even if there is such a statistical difference the most reliable way to get small-handed adults is childhood malnourishment
so, uhh, not something for anyone to be proud of
Apple’s “study” is shit and @nytimes.com even more so for publishing such drivel.
I appreciate this letter so much.
I'm just shocked you were able to write it, Julia. While naturally a benefit when putting tiny screws into iPhones, your miniscule fingers must have had great difficulty typing this lengthy missive up on a keyboard built for normal adult sized non-Asians!
#NYTimes
Related: the maltreatment of Chinese workers in the U.S., including but not limited to, the literal enslavement of Chinese women, is a sordid aspect of U.S. history that is far too much overlooked. Too many Americans feel ok w stereotyping people of Chinese ethnicity
And are experimenting with ways to boost production of this labor force:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/brain-dead-woman-must-carry-fetus-to-birth-because-of-georgias-abortion-ban-hospital-tells-family
First sentence: "Jerry Chen, pictures here crying in a parked Saab, is a typical young Chinese man with small and nimble fingers."
do these women’s hands keep growing past like adolescence? how much? how fast? do they have to take forced retirement if their ring size increases?
Amazing
So well done!
****Incidentally- there are no gifs of Chinese (or Asian people generally) available, so I'm assuming this is where the small hands research was concluded 😵
Probably because of the tiny hands.
Nice one, and great to see this BS being tackled for a change :) !
Do they stay nimble fingered with portable oxygen chambers, like David Duchovny in Zoolander?
Yikes
Robin Williams parody movies from 1990 should not be used as crib notes to steal
Crazy People
Because Caucasians Are Just Too * Tall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
Happy to see I wasn’t the only one who thought of Crazy People!
Thank you for sharing this absolutely stunning email.
@jowiph.bsky.social, if you haven't seen this yet, you'll want to read it.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1990-13809-001
> When measures of index finger and thumb thickness were used as covariate, all significant sex differences in performance disappeared.
I will be curious if you receive a response or if an edit is made.
Class. Absolute class.
white male Times reporters have small … uh … anatomical implements.
Pinker is defending Harvard by quoting David Reich's "politically incorrect" opinion in the NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html - i.e. a promotion of Reich's contested* book and flawed GWAS papers.
*E.g. in English
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bfopinion/race-genetics-david-reich#.jqQ6X6057b
“Our reporting does not make racial or genetic generalizations, but simply cites experts who have experience with the industrial process in U.S. and Chinese factories.”
like ok but you said “young Chinese women have small fingers” … ?? ?
People make mistakes.
But making race science a hill to die on because you can't admit a mistake really is something.
https://bsky.app/profile/jackq.bsky.social/post/3lpwdnnfxws2p
They're "normal" hands. I know that racism is the point, but they couldn't be any more incorrect. NY Times can't fall anymore, though they're trying.
—Charlie Stadtlander
…so that “ small hands “ story doesn’t even hold up!!!
Do young Chinese♀️actually have smaller fingers than young♀️of most countries? What's the comparison to young Vietnamese women? Young American♀️? Young British♀️, Young Indian♀️? Young Japanese♀️? Young Thai♀️? Young Korean♀️?
If so, they should cite the study.
Otherwise, utter thoughtless B.S.
Height for women in China is 10 cm less than it is in Bosnia, why is it such a big deal to assume that their average handsize is also smaller? Source would be better but its not a wild claim. What am i missing?
Thats why i don't get the outrage over perceived racism on the journalists side when there are real forced labour camps in China producing stuff for American companies
Gross.
There's nothing homogeneous about it.
The reason nationality matters is that they don’t have many (if any) child labor laws. These “young women” are women just the same as a 12-yo rape victim becomes a “promiscuous young woman” to the anti-abortion crowd. 🫠
https://chinalaborwatch.org/investigation-of-an-apple-supplier-pegatron-kunshan-report-in-2023/
Their lack of consistent, reliable, routine enforcement is widely known and well documented. I’ve provided three sources on that already.
China has very high educational attainment and the International Labour Organization has literally not found a single case of child labour in China since they ratified the Minimum Age Convention 1999.
In this case, politicians were demoted and expelled from the party for allowing child labour in their province.
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-10/22/content_6195174.htm
This is the only logical explanation for the claim!
https://bsky.app/profile/kittywashere.bsky.social/post/3lpxpi6i6rs2d
Waiting @nytimes.com for the follow-up article on how tacit generalities about “small hands” are being used to normalize labor exploitation.
Expect I may be waiting a long time🪑🕸️
I’m so confused about the boundaries.
<3
The experts:
"We're simply citing what experts have said about the predictability of skull shape"
[links to Quillette]
Proofreaders do the same thing, but cheaper. Just like we'll replace writers with AI.
This is no different than “Black men have big dicks” or “Black people feel less pain” or “Asian men have small dicks.”
It’s all a part of the same racist pseudoscience bullshit.
Watching the clip: NOPE! She out loud said Great White Hope.
Among my many clear-cut appraisal failures.
Also, how does iPhone repair work exactly? I am fairly certain that those shops do not have secret Chinese women doing all the work for them.
OMFG. WTF?!
Wow, just...wow.
THAT's their source? White American 'industry experts' ???
Now it’s like listening to old man Trump. They are incoherent, racist and extreme. What happened?
@chrislhayes.bsky.social @secupp1.bsky.social
@oliverdarcy.bsky.social
[sarcasm - foot binding was a thing, though]
Trump needs Apple to commit to building iPhones here. They obviously disagree. NYT is pushing White House agenda pretty blatantly.
Ugh, i hate sounding like this. but why else?
Wow gtfo with that patronizing ass tone!!!!!
And among the lessons: The NYT *desperately* needs to reinstate a public editor.
Otherwise their response to public criticism (like yours) is: hit-or-miss; not "authoritative"; flippant; not backed by interviews with reporters and editors; etc.
That's the essence of mainstream media these days.
-NYTimes
OK, not to generalize TOO much, but it seems a fact that the ones who work on iPhones are young and have small fingers.
https://bsky.app/profile/pwnallthethings.bsky.social/post/3lpwal5udhk27
(This is sarcasm)
You might want to see this, or not tbh.
Jeeesuss
Also, what on Earth is going on with what those two NYT people have on their heads? I hesitate to call it hair.
I look forward to the views of experts and some guy who was on a podcast.
But it makes me think they're using the phrase "young women" in the same way your kindergarten teacher would.
https://static-cdn.toi-media.com/www/uploads/2018/02/sep3-e1518449972155.jpg
And their labor laws would be okay with that.
With the hosing their farmers will take with the Big Beautiful Bill there's a chance they'll need the jobs.
“There are a few Chinese misspellings and miscues — the surname Wang is not, in fact, pronounced quite as “Wong.””
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/15/books/review/apple-in-china-patrick-mcgee.html
How is any of this real life?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
And just getting madder.
Your reply was incredibly clear and extremely courteous considering the subject matter and they still do this shit
https://youtu.be/LgTLx93vyrU?si=IBI5o1q9OnKiDxYU
https://ig.ft.com/us-iphone/
Mentions 74 screws placed by hand:
Meanwhile we must think of 42 ways not to say the President is lying
Like, just say failsons
Our reporting does not make racial, genetic or newspaper generalizations, but simply cites common knowledge of the racist brainrot at your "news" paper.
I mean they also have screwdrivers right, they're not turning screws with tiny fingernails
🖕🏻
What a freakin disgrace.
He’s from the communications team? 🤯🤯🤯
Side note: with my own large hands I have successfully disassembled, repaired, and reassembled Iphones.
Smh. Doubling down on their garbage.
Maybe next they'll argue that certain races are impervious to pain or lack emotion or compassion.
This joke was literally made 35 years ago
Again
https://bsky.app/profile/pwnallthethings.bsky.social/post/3lpwal5udhk27
It's simply bizarre casual racism that assumes Chinese factories can't automate assembly and instead rely on manual labor.
Just unsubscribe already. The NYT isn’t worth the screen time it adorbs. They no longer have appropriate editorial standards. Promise you won’t miss it. It’s trash.
Well I for one am very shocked to find out that tech engineers have weird racist beliefs.
Donny has experience screwing over people.
Wonder if he'd print this sentence: "Middle-aged white women have husky, stunted fingers that lack the dexterity needed to put together the machines that connect us."
(Sorry if you were being sarcastic about the original report clearly “taking a guess” rather than being based on any reality, I’m not always good at picking up that sort of implication.)
Almost. But mainly, fuck that guy.
https://bsky.app/profile/uberpantsmonkey.bsky.social/post/3lpwa6j43rs2z
Therefore, and QED, no racism
https://www.nytco.com/person/charlie-stadtlander/
Anyway, factory child labor looks like it’s making a big comeback in the new Gilded Age
We should probably fix that
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/ny-times-killed-investigation-israeli-hooligans-internal-email-reveals
“Here, let me share a few Bible verses about Ham and how God cursed his son Canaan and his descendants.”
https://youtu.be/a6ApMPkRB_w?si=xuJDYfFL-5IFQpb3
Give 'em hell, Ms. Wong!
Looking at my own not at all small or delicate hands as I type this.
(Chinese peasant stock, I'm afraid, not optimized for tiny screws.)
Fantastic.
I am absolutely stealing it.
(You can adjust the level of profanity as you see fit)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve6I92hEozo&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD
https://blog.womensurgeons.org/training/the-evolution-of-women-in-surgery-defying-barriers-and-shaping-medical-history/#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Barry_(surgeon)?wprov=sfti1#
More than 80% of ob/gyn specialists are female?
Apologies if you were just making a joke about big hands that I didn't understand.
Didn't mean to minimise your decades of experience! It is kinda weird it was so male for so long.