I think progressives have had a problem with "purity tests" (the need for all leaders to have tightly aligned perspectives or else stay quiet about it)
And I think the Democratic Party has had a problem with being...undemocratic - with too much power in the institution and not in the people.
And I think the Democratic Party has had a problem with being...undemocratic - with too much power in the institution and not in the people.
Comments
The party itself is anti-labor, yet it keeps the same name because the other parties are also anti-labor.
Doublespeak.
Whoops! The Democrats did all that shit and still lost
Otherwise this is just manufacturing consent through folktale anecdotes
If you disagree with me about whether democrats should support genocide, it's important for you to be specific.
Participation.
Would you rather have the new KIA with zero miles? Absolutely.
But sometimes your only choices are a Pinto with a dented fender or an AMC Hornet with a questionable transmission.
This is why voting in primaries is important. It's why sometimes voting for a third party to send a message to the major party is important.
I'm discussing the complete and total refusal to participate; taking your ball and going home philosophy.
my only question is why liberals don't share that view
I honestly think the DNC needs to reach out more to progressives. But we need to be willing to build coalitions with them if they do.
I knew another who proudly proclaimed he had only voted for one candidate, Kucinich, because he was the only vegan to ever run. Honestly almost apathy disguised as principle.
Primaries are where you move the party; the general is where you move the country.
Yes, we dragged the whole ass country left.
If keeping them safe means a deal with a lesser evil, I'm okay living in the gray.
in-fight & squabble over minutiae while losing the big picture. We need to put our heads together (& down) to progress. Slice vs whole cake for now, just for now
Should we just assume that you’re willing to welcome racist, anti trans, pro genocide fascists into our fold at the expense of marginalized folks, or would you like to offer a counter?
Who, Hank, do you imagine doesn’t have an innate value to be treated as wholly human? Who should be forced to tolerate bigotry, bullying, erasure? Should their exclusion be based on religion, biology, heritage, productivity, wealth?
The ‘let’s tolerate hate-filled bigots’ wing is not a party the decent can do.
Mulch them. Put them in the ovens, roast them the fuck up, and then mulch them. Use the mulch to grow ethically sourced corn fuel for my F-1250 ULTRAMAX POLLUTO-DIESEL.
Big tent shit.
That they aren't, doesn't enter the discourse.
I won't vote for anyone that is okay with throwing trans people under the bus. That's my line in the sand moving forward.
Maybe just 2 very simple planks: Never Trump, and women’s health?
What else could motivate voters who are maybe “nice”, but still really really dumb?
We host a Presidential Primary Convention to send DNC delegates at state level. Open to all Dems.
If there is a model alternative there is more challenge with your state & apathetic voters.
If there is a better model what is it waiting on?
And always narrows during dem incumbencies.
Which often results in more likley gop wins after dems finish their term.
Feels like an unproductive cycle long term.
I can think of a lot of ways in the past 40 years in which a lack of adherence to the party platform sabotaged the ostensible goals of the dems, but not many in which we stuck to the platform and suffered for it.
And the solution is for the ones with standards to give those up and be okay with throwing groups to the wolves in return for the other side putting slightly less thumb on the scale?
one strength the t.rumpers have is unity.
It's easy and simple:
Get behind the leader and support.
Ignore all lies about the leader.
Anything bad about the leader is a lie.
Do Not Question—support the leader.
If no unified front can form against the mob
then the mob wins.
Not bothering to vote in a swing state because Harris stumped with Cheney? Cmon.
More like her morals and beliefs align more with Cheney.
IMO, we could lead from
This statement.
Hopefully they take the message, but they are being far too quiet about change and fighting back.
2016: the Democratic party primary voters
2020: the Democratic party primary voters
2024: the incumbent president
The DNC preference is even mentioned in the Wikipedia article and highlights favorable scheduling, funding, policy decisions.
It's a structural consequence, not a choice
And still, we’re up against such BAD ideas! Even the party of no ideas should have a light bulb brighter than "The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy."
That’s, 90% of it right there, isn’t it?
Social Media has definitely hurt attention spans too. We can't have public policy depend on short blurbs.
The portion that made a big deal about not voting for Harris because she wasn't far left enough...and see where that got us.
Do leftists aim too high? Idk
They often have purity tests and kick out members who do don’t conform. See Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney, etc.
GOP has been extremely effective with purity tests. Dems just do not follow through very well. See Manchin/Sinema
It was often made by Sanders supporters, but eg Clinton 2016 did better in primaries than in caucuses.
What’s happening now is a rebellion against weak leadership. The rebels include Clinton-style moderates who want action against fascism.
I don’t get the disbelief that the majority of eligible democrats supported her.
Today is different. If I may have a double skeet: 1/2
Chuck Schumer isn’t. 2/2
Keep him doing town halls. He’s very good at that. That promotes the left.
But he’s not good at intricate details. Don’t make him President.
But it hasn't always been the majority. And previously trying to force leftism upon the majority of democrats who didn't entirely agree is the definition of undemocratic.
I'm happy the tides are turning though.
I happen to love the guy, but to claim that he's an example of the purity police's "Unicorn" while they act in a manner that rejects all need to compromise is hypocrisy.
From all sides the “purity tests” are just what voters will ultimately vote for.
Voters don’t really want an anti-trans bigot and they don’t necessarily want fire-breathing socialists🤷♂️
You want to be leaders? Lead
That's literally ALL that should matter to ANYONE!
Here's a link that takes you to the document:
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
How many times does this have to be drilled into the heads of white cosplay socialist leftists????
Obama, HRC, Biden, and Harris are not neo-liberals. Heck, Biden/Harris literally had the most pro-labor, pro-consumer rights administration in 40+ years.
The whole frigging world of knowledge at our fingertips and people can’t be bothered to look up the term they’re using 🙄
It's exhausting. We can talk about shortcomings and failures without resorting to nonsense.
And the misinformation your spreading about Biden, I assume unknowingly, really just helps corporate interests. They gain by "both parties are the same" nonsense.
The problem with the purity testers is the widespread refusal to participate unless they are in charge so when we do get a good candidate they have no support base inside the party.
Also low local awareness/support.
And that's not even why they lose. It's cuz they don't help before they needed something.
They're that kid who came late asks to borrow your pen & a piece of paper. Oh & look at your book too?
He ended the drone strikes, if anything was a bit too "anti-war" in Afghanistan, and he strengthened anti-trust institutions.
Principle is an amazing thing: it's high time we rewarded it electorally, rather than the people who said the right thing when the polls said it was good, then changed.
No? That one thing would make all the rest disappear? Congrats, you support purity tests.
But people don’t like to be held to the standards of others. They want to live up/down to theirs. And that’s what they hate.
You have purity tests. You’d be a piece a piece of shit if you didn’t. You just don’t call them that internally.
So literally anytime anyone draws a line in the sand they don’t like? Now that’s a PuRiTy TeSt.
But you’ve take “purity tests are bad” as gospel, and define it as tests you don’t like.
It’s really easy to manipulate people who use catchphrases. You hate the phrase. Calling something a purity test means you’re more likely to reject it.
If demanding human rights is a purity tests then we have bigger problems.
“Purity tests” are often more like intelligence tests or honesty tests
Does a person say something because voters like it or because they know it’s good
If your willing to abandon one group your probably willing to abandon them all
And
You don’t want to vote for an idiot who does not understand the facts
Hun I come from a time when gays were lucky to have someone agree 70% of the time.
In that 30% you said publicly. I disagree/saddened by what my colleague did/said. Then go right back to working with them. Because if you didn't you had no one.
Instead consistently voting for totally unsatisfactory Democrats as a practical measure to beat Republicans.
If you are referencing progressive relations to Democratic Party leaders.
What would you give as an example of a ‘purity test’?
When have progressives withheld their support of Dem leadership?
I agree 100% that a lot of voters need to be more pragmatic and stop being purists about who they vote for.
Who should be compromised on
Go on, hank
Let's go with one demographic that is beyond redeemable: Teachers. Teachers that can't theorize their own selves and societies. They can't theorize that equal educational achievement is unattainable under grotesque inequality. Yet, a great many sit there and vote for the status quo.
And you sink that leader, allowing someone who is aligned AGAINST you on 100% of things to gain power...
How useful was that purity test?
THATS the problem. Nothing else.
Until we destroy the autocracy that has stolen this country, no sense bothering.
The attitude that Dems are not for the working people is reckless
Who the heck do you think is passing any of the laws for workers.? Democrats
Understand corporations exist. We can work with them + get along
Obama has been the only corporate tool w TPP
By not releasing the hostages Hamas gave Biden no choice but to let Netanyahu flatten it.
Now there will be no Palestinian state and there will be rows of Trump's towers on the beach because some people can't see that Bibi and Trump manipulated them.
You got played.
https://twothingscanberight.medium.com/the-myth-of-the-democratic-party-purity-test-419acfdee2b5
What is the point of building energy and excitement if you're just going to drop another donor approved campaign on the nation in the midterms?
We DO NOT survive this or effectively fight it w/out coalition, which is going to require compromise ACROSS THE BOARD.
There will be no successful prog "takeover" that magically wins us elections and the institutional entrenchment MUST end.
We leave no one behind.
Also, we need to look at consequences. We need to look at longer term outcomes.
You mean like a "purity test" but not a "purity test"
😐
Progressives saying that we don't think marginalized groups should be told to "wait" patiently and quietly for equality and justice isn't a purity test.
the power of our voice is fully wielded when illuminating the direction we must go and ineffectively used when wasted battling those who would probably follow that voice.
Complaining about purity tests is complaining about people unwilling to reasonable compromise, and ending up with harmful results.
We shouldn’t parrot these bad faith conspiratorial attacks!
Democrats aren't progressives. They're centrists, at best.
And this is their problem...they stand for nothing.
Purity test he calls it. 🙄
The “tankies” here are like 12 people with a book club
And also add that those in the Democratic Party with institutional power also have a problem with purity tests.
Just take off the mask and say it...
I hate these other selfish white guys. Hell, I hate everyone who's only concerned about the issues that personally effect them. Selfishness is ugly as hell.
Tell us who you hate?
sure, jan
And, if disagreed with, you lapse to name-calling. Bruh…
wait for it
purity test?
When ask if you’d protect the vulnerable from their persecutors, you resort to hateful euphemism to excuse and distract from having to acknowledge the reality that you’re ok with the suffering of others if it benefits you.
That’s bumping right up against ‘Good German’-ity.
The Big Ds colluding w/hatefuls means no hope for those they hate.
Their ranks if they aren’t 💯 maga. If they don’t kiss the ring, their political careers are dead. So miss me with the
Democrats purity test bullshit
He just lies.
Then ask yourself if prisoners are better off under Trump than Harris.
Also, not my country. Mine protects LGBTQ+ rights because we don’t let assholes divide us.
Nobody need apologize for not accepting mass graves.
Dems failed on Palestine and look to fail on trans rights. Not sacrificing lives for politics is the most basic and necessary test
Not sure that's a problem, Hank
Disagreements are fine.
But if you’re in power and you abuse it?
NO MORE LEGS. OR EARS. OR LIPS.
Usually folks complaining about the party being undemocratic are actually complaining about holding a minority opinion or the time & work it takes to build support.
The Dems keep on blaming the left, while simultaneously insisting there aren't enough leftists to warrant changing their platform.
Can't be both.
Now, they’re moving on to blaming marginalized folks. Arab voters first, now they’re saying it trans people who need to be sacrificed.
They need to look at the real problem, their refusal to fight.
If it's leftist populism, and they don't take that seriously, they choose failure. Non voters won the last election.
Instead of assuming they wouldn't vote, assume they are disenfranchised.
Fucking ENFRANCHISE THEM
Repeat for years
The left has next to no power in the party as it is. We are forced out.
nobody can ever criticize obama, hilary or kamala without being immediately labeled as "the problem"
instead they repealed glass-stegal which set up the 2008 recession. but Dems will never admit to this.
Were all workers, having healthcare, right to education, dignifiyed wage, caring for elderly and veterans arent radical ideas.
Are primary adversary is the owning class that has stood in the way of progressive policies.
They have had unity in their hate for 50 plus years and that has driven their coordinated efforts over generations...
We can't fight about the fringes and refuse to travel together.
But they can get there and make that fight. We can't even get enough unreserved power to fight with each other.
So Democrats fight with each other before they get in the room.
It was had the same effective consequence as a president's signature.
Do you remember what it was?
Can you provide a singke example of a similar "purity test" given by progressives?
I dont disagree, but someone needs to give them some competition and me someone else to vote for.
The "purity tests" are just statements of (among others!) trans and Palestinian personhood, and a right to basic personal freedom.
If you think that's a purity test, I genuinely think you should be sent to live in the woods.
Maybe that's all fake ot trolls? Or maybe they all just still vote dem when the time comes?
Feels.. questionable.
How are those exact human rights you're discussing there in that last reply going now?
Seems your problems with compromised rights have gotten much much worse? Nice choice.
A case where this is not a detriment is when the purity test is screening for non negotiable progressive values like tolerance
God damn centrists
Having failed their “purity test”, they withdrew. The party lost their energy and their money.
that was on the early Biden days.
Come on, man.
Progressives should understand that people believe in different things in the party, and we need to work together.
RS
And also excessive democratization can be a problem—the Republican Party being a perfect example of this.
"If you ride the fence, you picked the wrong side"
But i think it's more control than comfort.
Dems want to have some control. To be able to pass bills or block bills.
They're not happy to just have good ideas and do nothing with them.
They want to win elections. Enough to bend.
Where... are the leftists?
The same Progressives that have consistently supported the same leadership with votes far more than centrists.
The Crazy left is a GOP canard as to power.
Maybe they were?
I feel like progressives are a magical creature that no one knows anything about and it's both at fault or nearly nonexistent depending on the topic.
These problems aren’t at all equal.
Trump is the president.
Do it.
Now.
What are you waitng for?
The best way is one that WORKS BEST.
You have no clue what the best way is.. or you would have done it 40 years ago.
The left has all the advice in the world on the easy and best way... and never does it.
Because.. it doesn't WORK.
Why do you never have to win?
Dems did win in 2020.
When is your turn to step up?
When has your way solved any problems in America?
Dems have at least done something, set up and fight for a social safety system.
I strongly recommend you looking at Open secrets and looking at the major donors. It's sadly more pay to play instead of democracy.
And i don't think it's so much a demand for perspective adherence as much as it's a moral baseline.