I'm just shocked you were able to write it, Julia. While naturally a benefit when putting tiny screws into iPhones, your miniscule fingers must have had great difficulty typing this lengthy missive up on a keyboard built for normal adult sized non-Asians!
Oh it was the NY Times! Figures. They've just taken to spouting whatever noise nonsense they hear. It's long past time to stop encouraging them by buying that f'n rag posing as journalism. Great note to Tripp. Thank you.
Related: the maltreatment of Chinese workers in the U.S., including but not limited to, the literal enslavement of Chinese women, is a sordid aspect of U.S. history that is far too much overlooked. Too many Americans feel ok w stereotyping people of Chinese ethnicity
Clearly the US is falling behind in the "small fingers" arms race. Need to start a federal government program to develop a small fingered industrial army of our own to compete with the Chinese.
WTF. I missed this. So ‘young Chinese women’ invented watches and were required to repair all the watches throughout history? What is wrong with someone’s brain that they would be this stupid. What the hell?
Thank you!!!! As a man with large cumbersome fingers, I only took personal offense that the article used its racist pseudoscience against fellow humans.
****Incidentally- there are no gifs of Chinese (or Asian people generally) available, so I'm assuming this is where the small hands research was concluded 😵
I scrolled looking for one and didn't find one, but you got me. Apparently I didn't scroll deep enough to find what appears to be a GIF with a woman with the tiniest hands I've ever seen on a grown adult. She must assemble Iphones and unfortunately you've managed to make that article seem sound.
Differences in nutrition levels certainly could cause height and hand size to diverge after the war, but I wouldn't state it as true without some GD evidence.
They did what? And responded how?
Yikes
Robin Williams parody movies from 1990 should not be used as crib notes to steal
Crazy People
Because Caucasians Are Just Too * Tall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
I posted my link for other users who might not want to go to YT to watch, because I initially used the same link as you and then was frustrated it wouldn’t play here.
Happy to see I wasn’t the only one who thought of Crazy People!
Excellent. This kind of racist newsroom bullshit is why I left being a staff writer at the LA Times to become a novelist and independent essayist. It is idustrywide.
I’m so jealous. I hope he actually reads it - or better yet, the NYT Editorial Board reads it. I wonder if anyone has his phone number and can call for a reaction, secretly tape it, and put it on Bluesky? (I know it’s bad to ambush people, but what an asshole.)
When I were a lad the manufacturer I worked for employed 'wire-women' to assemble PCBs. In time they they went of many other assembly workers but I don't think it was related to hand size.
Seems to me that there should some designated editor that could be contacted in this sort of situation. A public-facing ombudsman of some sort. A “public editor” if you will. Just a dream I guess.
It's a good idea. In Canada we have that for broadcasters, but I don't think we have the same for news media (or there's no way the Sun and Post papers could get yo print)
The implication that Chinese women's skills and working conditions are irrelevant, but they have have an innate physical difference that makes them suitable for a specific kind of manual labor, is offensive to all working people.
By scientific journals' editors first - alas - but they also publish the reasons why studies like Reich's (Genome Wide Association Studies - GWAS) are not "trustworthy".
Since I'm no longer a Times subscriber, I'll have to just hope someone posts a gift link to his response/retraction/rebuttal. I'm looking forward to reading it...
Is David Brooks having coffee with a small-boned, pretty Chinese woman now and explaining fancy cold cuts to her as we speak? "Expert research" with "real people" "liberals never bother to meet."
“Our reporting does not make racial or genetic generalizations, but simply cites experts who have experience with the industrial process in U.S. and Chinese factories.”
like ok but you said “young Chinese women have small fingers” … ?? ?
Why is it a reflex at the NYT to be obtuse when someone points out a mistake, instead of "oops, that's bad, we will correct it & review our reporting and editing processes"?
People make mistakes.
But making race science a hill to die on because you can't admit a mistake really is something.
NYT has had IIRC 3 Public Editors. Every time a Public Editor criticized a story, Times explained why it wasn't a problem. Then they said they didn't need a Public Editor any more, because people could use social media to communicate problems. Then they started whining about social media mobs.
Likely you know this--when @nytimes.com abolished its Public Editor position in 2017, Sulzberger said ongoing social media comments would hold them to account. So you're performing exactly the function they envisioned and welcomed. Surprising, then, that the response quality is this poor.
Don't run away from reality just to prop up an idea. I work in a factory. The department that requires the most heavy lifting is populated by huge dudes who can lift shit for 12hrs without getting hurt. Is that some sort of genetic discrimination?
“Hi Julia, in answer to your question about the source of our racist claims, I’d like to share with you a quote from the racist we quoted. As you will see, we accurately quoted his racism. I hope that answers your question.”
Apple Engineers will talk about nothing unless instructed to. Which "they" won't be - instead, a virtue signaling announcement will be made to appease the masses.
I hope this breaks through. There's a lot of "logic blinding" that happens in the racist frame where statements about race just *are* and don't get scrutinized or discussed. They get to float in thought bubbles in so much journalism
I started giving The Guardian money because of this series of letters. I used my small nimble fingers to enter the credit card information and everything
Reminds me of the explanation that women worked in the US garment industry doing low- paid sewing, not higher-paid cutting, because their hands are smaller. Curious how when the economy deteriorates and men need the work, their hands are small enough.
…also trump has notoriously small hands & he has proven to be utterly useless in doing anything productive
…so that “ small hands “ story doesn’t even hold up!!!
Thank you.
Do young Chinese♀️actually have smaller fingers than young♀️of most countries? What's the comparison to young Vietnamese women? Young American♀️? Young British♀️, Young Indian♀️? Young Japanese♀️? Young Thai♀️? Young Korean♀️?
If so, they should cite the study.
Otherwise, utter thoughtless B.S.
'Most Chinese young woman have black hair' is a statement that is both racial and true.
Height for women in China is 10 cm less than it is in Bosnia, why is it such a big deal to assume that their average handsize is also smaller? Source would be better but its not a wild claim. What am i missing?
Because height itself doesn't always make your hands big. And not all Chinese women are short. Northern Chinese, as example, are in no way small. Also, smaller hands aren't the main reason, why Apple outsourced their factories to China.
Yes, the no.1 (and only?) reason apple chose China is labour cost.
Thats why i don't get the outrage over perceived racism on the journalists side when there are real forced labour camps in China producing stuff for American companies
Outrage isn't about racism of incompetent of journalists, outrage is about racists stereotypes that such journalists spread without any proper evidence to back themselves up on their statements. Most people here know about labour camps and how workers are treated there.
I assumed this was some manufacturing code for children initially – but the fact it is just “young” women makes it super weird. The only humans with notoriously small fingers are children. Women of any race have a wide variety of finger shapes. Quoting experts doesn’t make it NOT racist.
It's just such arrant nonsense. My mother, a European with an Amazonian stature used to work in a computer chips assembly job. Not as small as the screws perhaps, but plenty small.
Upon closer consideration, I think we’re all missing a larger implication.
The reason nationality matters is that they don’t have many (if any) child labor laws. These “young women” are women just the same as a 12-yo rape victim becomes a “promiscuous young woman” to the anti-abortion crowd. 🫠
None of this is true, though. China has both child labour laws and compulsory education.
China has very high educational attainment and the International Labour Organization has literally not found a single case of child labour in China since they ratified the Minimum Age Convention 1999.
Michelle, it is a widely known and well accepted fact that child labor prevails in China, and I have shared three sources in reply to a smart alec already supporting this.
Enough of the ignorant trolling. China has a child labor problem, and any future denialists commenting to me will be blocked as supporting child labor through your ignorance is as bad as through malice after a point.
Good point. Charlie didn't think any of this through. But just on its face, it sounds like an old seventies joke about Asian women and sex. Really sad.
Did a Google search of "patrick mcgee chinese women small fingers" and you will not be surprised to see that the only hit including "fingers" is Bari Weiss' so-called "Free Press."
I let out an exasperated sigh. "The IDW is doing race science at the NYT again. Teeny little hands are the secret to China's manufacturing dominance, *apparently*. Nimble hands and nimble minds. Oh yeah makes a ton of sense Bari." Family members look at me with a mixture of confusion and concern.
Apple was able to set up iPhone manufacturing in India when India said they would not allow iPhone sales in-country without it, so should we believe that some segment of Indian society is predisposed to small hands and fingers? The GOP is hot to bring back child labor, whose hands are also small…
Not to get sidetracked, but I never even considered that Cookie Monster and thin mints existed in the same reality. Poor guy had enough of a problem with less addictive generic cookies
Well a bunch of white men from Apple said it so it can't be a racist generalization. White American males have exceptional perception when it comes to the finger sizes of different kinds of women around the world.
It’s like the paper’s policy of simply repeating, uncritically, whatever Trump and Vance say has now been extended to all liars and crooks and racists. Smart move!
This hilarious. The supply chain experts in China and around the world have hired millions of people who have assembled over 10 billion iphones.
Yet, they are not in a position to tell us what makes China so amazingly adept at making these devices. Wokeness lives!
Tripp Mickle is a name that should come with a prep school diploma and a membership to a country club that only allows white people to swim in their pool.
Well that... that makes sense actually. If they'd just said it was an interview with Bari Weiss everyone would have immediately known it was a load of bollocks. NYT is in a sad place right now and it's hard to see it ever recovering its credibility.
I listened to more of this interview and it’s just incredible nonsense. I don’t know much about the anti-Japanese panic of the 80s and 90s but what I’ve seen sounds like this.
The annoying double standard where you have to remain calm and reasoned in the face of blatant racism and misogyny or be outright dismissed. Even so, his reply was to blow her off.
We could either hint at the fact that we are ok with Chinese children working in sweatshops, or we could advocate for child labor in the US. We felt the former was more appropriate at this time.
Maybe they should consider whether young Chinese women are an easy labor demographic for industries to exploit rather than focus on their allegedly immutable physical characteristics?
The US media has lost its mind. Once upon a time Americans relied on it for its impartial and insightful analysis.
Now it’s like listening to old man Trump. They are incoherent, racist and extreme. What happened?
@chrislhayes.bsky.social @secupp1.bsky.social
@oliverdarcy.bsky.social
I honestly can’t believe how anyone involved in this didn’t have the curiosity to question how a phone is made in 2025 & then write the next paragraph explaining that. People love “how it’s made” breakdowns - where’s that?
And among the lessons: The NYT *desperately* needs to reinstate a public editor.
Otherwise their response to public criticism (like yours) is: hit-or-miss; not "authoritative"; flippant; not backed by interviews with reporters and editors; etc.
I dunno, I feel like if they got an Apple higher-up on the phone and asked them about this, the answer wouldn't be "yes, we have our production in China due to the clever fingers of young Chinese ladies"
Yikes. The distinction between the statements: “[factories employ] young Chinese women WITH little fingers” and “young Chinese women HAVE little fingers” seems like a pretty clear leap into racial stereotyping.
do the fingers of these 'young' women grow as they age? It doesn't even make sense. Why include 'young' even if, on average, hands of Chinese women are smaller than... what other Nation's
His response is certainly vapid if judged by journalistic standards. Yet, if we acknowledge the NYT is a platform for capitalistic propaganda, stating that engineers are essentially demanding little fingers makes it clearer why states are dismantling child labor laws.
"Our reporting contains explicit racism because all of our sources shared racist opinions, and our editorial board is full of racists with racist standards"
"we can't help it if experts who have experience with the manufacturing process are racist! We are obligated to uncritically quote them without citation"
Is it usual to have comms people (rather than the author/their editor) replying to questions from other reporters/editors? Charlie seems out of their depth here...
“Apple engineers will talk about this” sir I have lived around engineers my entire life and I promise you their willingness to talk about a subject does not correlate to knowledge about the subject. See “hold my beer” and “I wonder if this will explode”
There is a roundabout, in the sky, in New Orleans. I am relatively certain engineers came up with this idea. I am still pretty sure it’s a bad one, even if it’s still standing.
Also I seem to remember a scene from a movie in the 80s in which someone explains that the reason Japanese cars are smaller is that the people who are making them have smaller fingers. And this is what part of a shtick that gets him admitted into a mental hospital. But I can not remember the movie.
If anybody wants to ask what Tim Apple thinks about these comments that his engineers are purportedly making, you can write his corporate-account-checked-by-somebody-who-definitely-isn't-him at [email protected]
My sausage-fingered linebacker-sized friend does Apple repairs for a living. Finger size, according to him, is irrelevant. The real reason that Apple has factories in China? The same reasons that they have to lock the doors to Foxconn roofs in China.
Looked at the NY Times articles and they postfaced it with "supply chain experts said". So I guess that means they aren't racists but merely neutral fair and balanced reporters.
I really love (sarcasm) this response which basically says some guy who wrote a book said young Chinese women have small hands so it's true. Just jaw-droppingly stupid.
Didn't the engineers only claim that the skills they need aren't available in the US? I thought the fingers thing was separate from the way that article was written.
Apart from all the other stuff wrong with this, it's seems quite the logical blunder to go from factories employ "young Chinese women WITH little fingers" to young Chinese women HAVE little fingers.
Also, even if, as they claim, "young Chinese women have small fingers", are there no small-fingered people in the US? I just checked the average height of women in the US vs China and it's 5'3" for both.
If it's true that Apple industrial "experts" manufacture in China because of race "science," the NYT has not only failed in parroting that nonsense, but completely missed what the real story is here.
just remember conor sen, lakshya jain, nate silver, matt yglesias, david shor -they're all on twitter shitting their actblue diapers about "why bsky hates the NYT"
Also getting a response from the comms team and not the reporter or his editor is bullshit in and of itself — wild to have outsourced the response and with that you would think a comms professional could do better
Response: New York Times managing directors have tiny penises and their brain replaced by a peanut deemed unfit for human or animal consumption.
Our reporting does not make racial, genetic or newspaper generalizations, but simply cites common knowledge of the racist brainrot at your "news" paper.
I would submit that if your comms team is publicly answering straightforward questions about attribution/sourcing, you already know you’re laundering really vile racist trash in your newspaper of record or whatever it is they tell themselves they’re writing.
been thinking about going all in on being super racist and no way am i going on this idiots show if i decide to make the jump. id like to hang on to at least one shred of my self respect thank you very much
The apple people talking about it aren't talking about how great it is that they have small hands because it lets them do all this special small-hand-requiring work, they're casually (and offensively) joking about all the reports of people as young as 13 working there
I once heard this "concept" is as old as the magnetic core memories of antique computers, small hands were required for weaving thin wires and miniscule ferrite rings...
Yes, besides the insane race angle, most women are fully grown by the age of 18, many much earlier, so the only reason “young” is relevant is if you’re talking about 13-15 (or younger) yr olds
That was one of the primary arguments that late 19th and early 20th century factory owners offered to justify child labor-children were able to get into tight spaces in the manufacturing process.
I think a lot of folks have a somewhat out-dated view of just how high-tech and automated a lot of the assembly is of modern devices and smartphones. There's still lots of people involved in subcomponents, and particularly in refurbishing, but the phone assembly is largely automated and high-tech
That's something which reshoring proponents don't understand: even if you manage to bring high-tech manufacturing to the US, it's not going to bring back jobs. Silicon foundries are massive but only employ a couple hundred EXTREMELY highly skilled people who are only there to monitor the systems.
You don't touch computer chips it's not how you do it you use tools, fucking idiots, it doesn't matter how big your hands are anyone could use a screwdriver and tweezers
Wow. He doesn’t seem embarrassed at all that he believes Apple engineers when they say it’s that Chinese women have small fingers. Like there isn’t a long history of body type differences being offered up as a BS excuse for economic decisions.
Apple Stores across the US regularly have staff that open and repair iPhones and screw in the those tiny screws. I can assure you, there is no hand-size requirement you have to pass in order to become an Apple Genius. Incredibly strange these statements are being passed on without critical thought
Oh, aha. It's in keeping with the Times' general policy that the story is reporting what someone *says,* not reporting whether it's *true.* Also this is so ingrained that Charlie here doesn't even seem to understand that's what he's doing.
Also, by analogy Indian women who are increasingly assembling iPhones outside China, ought to have small fingers too. Slip slidin away into Asian physical characteristics coupled with racial genetics! Why doesn’t the inimitable NYtimes extrapolate their observations to Indian women? Seriously!😁
I low-key love the way "apple engineers" get dragged in as second-order subjects of gross over-generalizations. All apple engineers are this racist? Or were there just a few specific ones?
Hitting us with that 1-2 combo of "white people don't even know enough to think to possibly question their 'common sense' racial stereotypes" and "white people assume they're the default normal middle ground everyone else should be judged by"
The whole thing is so absurd. Don’t do a Trump (double down when caught in a lie or mistake and then draw with sharpie on a map to ‘prove you are right’). Seriously!
So in other words the NYT is just saying that they're just repeating racist tropes that others talk about. Should be interesting when the Trump administration starts unapologetically using the n-word.
All they had to fucking say was “apple believes in a weird racists stereotype about Chinese women’s fingers” or something like that. They reported it as fact!
Swear to his, this was in the movie comedy Crazy People with Dudley Moore. At the end there’s an ad for Sony that says *this exact thing* about Japanese people and says Sony is better at electronics because Caucasians are “too damn big”. 🤷♂️
Just unsubscribe already. The NYT isn’t worth the screen time it adorbs. They no longer have appropriate editorial standards. Promise you won’t miss it. It’s trash.
"We visited a factory in China and saw Chinese workers there and concluded Apple's entire rationale must be about the size of their hands." - the "experts"
they do but this... this does not sound like something to come out of the mouth of engineer. If I had to bet, I'd bet this was an older middle management dude recounting what they remember hearing in the 80s.
I am no journalist, but I would have thought that one would need to actually identify an Apple engineer who talked about this, if any, and assess basic things like "does this engineer have reason to know", and "is this engineer insane", before discussing what they say.
Yeah but kids really do lack the fine motor skills. Only hand assembled electronics manufacturing lines I was involved with in North America was staffed almost entirely by middle aged Polish women, who definitely did not have small fingers.
“We don’t make racial or genetic generalizations, we just regurgitate the racial and genetic generalizations of people familiar with Apple production facilities”
Maybe he thinks it's better to sound racist than to admit the small hands belong to children, which all children have, whose labor they are exploiting much cheaper than could American children. Either way it's insane.
I was just thinking this! It sounds exactly like an argument against child labor laws *without even getting into the racism*. "But small fingers are necessary for this factory work" uhhhhh
At least he took the time to demonstrate that he actually meant to make a spurious, highly over-generalized, racially specific claim. I love that he backed it up by saying “another dude said it on a podcast so it must be true.”
Personally, I believe the entire tone and tenor of this letter would have been different if the names of those who said these things had been identified, and the reporting aimed more at the stereotypical & misogynistic thinking of Apple engineers. I know many men with "small fingers"!
I always love it when someone who is white and male (Charlie Stadtlander) cites an "expert" who is white and male (Patrick McGee) to explain why something isn't racist of offensive to people who are neither white nor male.
@stadtlander.bsky.social Oh, Charlie Charlie Charlie. I can't believe you are the one chosen to refute this. Watch your back: NYT is craven as feck now
I didn’t go to journalism school, but I knew people who did… and I’m pretty sure one of the things they were taught was how to analyze the things people told them, rather than just passing them along.
I'm not even sure if turnabout would convince him, if he's using citation armor to justify it.
Wonder if he'd print this sentence: "Middle-aged white women have husky, stunted fingers that lack the dexterity needed to put together the machines that connect us."
Genetic predispositions influence body types. That includes men and women. East Asian populations tend to have naturally smaller frames and lower BMI relative to other ethic groups. That is why, exactly, I guessed that. My apologies if you disagree or find that offensive.
Totally agree. I don't buy their reasoning at all. It has everything to do with wages. The outrage in the comments about the suggestion that Asain women have small hands being racist was my point..
I didn't see a reference to older Chinese women in the post. But yes, I assume older Chinese women also have smaller fingers on average than many other demographics. And before you comment, this would also apply the middle aged Chinese women...
One, you’re assuming Chinese people are one homogenous group (and btw, the women’s average height is the same as in the US). Two, you’re not questioning *why* the article only references young women in the first place. Three, your guess is based on what? Racist stereotypes? Four…nope, cba to go on.
Even were “Chinese women” a homogenous group that could be described as such.
(Sorry if you were being sarcastic about the original report clearly “taking a guess” rather than being based on any reality, I’m not always good at picking up that sort of implication.)
The point that he's using to justify race science seems to be about *young women* who ARE Chinese because they're in and from China. The sentence is the same without the word "Chinese." However, this author chose to focus on that, which tells us a lot about them and nothing about Chinese people.
Back in the 19th century women and children used to make fusee chains for pocket watches - an insanely precise and arduous job. Small fingers and dexterity was the excuse for using women and children. Very little mention of cheap labour to the point of exploitation…
This is the equivalent of an enslaver in the Old South claiming that they aren’t saying blacks are a subhuman, inferior species that are meant to serve superior whites but merely are citing God.
“Here, let me share a few Bible verses about Ham and how God cursed his son Canaan and his descendants.”
Where's the reporting that shows that experts in journalism can attest that people named Charlie who work at the New York Times have exceptionally small and non-functional penises?
If I inadvertently was responsible for publishing racist garbage and had it pointed out, I would be ashamed and apologetic and hasten to make amends -- especially by firing the reporter responsible -- not make excuses like "it was on a podcast."
Let me just add that no one who cites women's (supposedly) small nimble fingers ever reaches the conclusion that it would make them excellent surgeons. It's always typists or assembly line workers.
I'm unsure as to whether having small nimble fingers is desirable in a US president but Donald "big hands therefore big penis" Trump seems keen to claim his hands are bigly. (They're clearly not.) I thank God that I haven't seen his penis which as an atheist is telling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve6I92hEozo&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD
Totally besides the point, but that paragraph about Dr James Barry, totally overlooks the fact that they were likely gender non-conforming, and they chose to live life *their* way.
Yes - thanks for sharing! He sounds like such a cool person! He did incredible work that ran counter to the norms in medicine at the time and positively transformed nutrition, sanitation, and medical care for a lot of people who had historically been excluded. What a legacy
I had a surgical nurse tell me to find a female surgeon if I ever need heart surgery, like my mom did. (she didn't survive it) Because they have smaller, more nimble fingers and care more about fine stitches. I believe it.
I have just checked the figures and there are indeed now more female than male gynaecologists in the UK, which has only just happened. I think your figures may be referring to the USA. The many male gynaecologists I have met over the years have usually had above average size hands...
What is even weirder is that everyone is clutching their pearls about the possibility of male radiographers [radiology technicians] being allowed to take mammograms (which they are not at the moment) when we have had male gynaecologists and male breast surgeons for decades!
Comments
I appreciate this letter so much.
I'm just shocked you were able to write it, Julia. While naturally a benefit when putting tiny screws into iPhones, your miniscule fingers must have had great difficulty typing this lengthy missive up on a keyboard built for normal adult sized non-Asians!
#NYTimes
Related: the maltreatment of Chinese workers in the U.S., including but not limited to, the literal enslavement of Chinese women, is a sordid aspect of U.S. history that is far too much overlooked. Too many Americans feel ok w stereotyping people of Chinese ethnicity
And are experimenting with ways to boost production of this labor force:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/brain-dead-woman-must-carry-fetus-to-birth-because-of-georgias-abortion-ban-hospital-tells-family
First sentence: "Jerry Chen, pictures here crying in a parked Saab, is a typical young Chinese man with small and nimble fingers."
do these women’s hands keep growing past like adolescence? how much? how fast? do they have to take forced retirement if their ring size increases?
Amazing
So well done!
****Incidentally- there are no gifs of Chinese (or Asian people generally) available, so I'm assuming this is where the small hands research was concluded 😵
Probably because of the tiny hands.
Nice one, and great to see this BS being tackled for a change :) !
Do they stay nimble fingered with portable oxygen chambers, like David Duchovny in Zoolander?
Yikes
Robin Williams parody movies from 1990 should not be used as crib notes to steal
Crazy People
Because Caucasians Are Just Too * Tall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
Happy to see I wasn’t the only one who thought of Crazy People!
Thank you for sharing this absolutely stunning email.
@jowiph.bsky.social, if you haven't seen this yet, you'll want to read it.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1990-13809-001
> When measures of index finger and thumb thickness were used as covariate, all significant sex differences in performance disappeared.
I will be curious if you receive a response or if an edit is made.
Class. Absolute class.
white male Times reporters have small … uh … anatomical implements.
Pinker is defending Harvard by quoting David Reich's "politically incorrect" opinion in the NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html - i.e. a promotion of Reich's contested* book and flawed GWAS papers.
*E.g. in English
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bfopinion/race-genetics-david-reich#.jqQ6X6057b
“Our reporting does not make racial or genetic generalizations, but simply cites experts who have experience with the industrial process in U.S. and Chinese factories.”
like ok but you said “young Chinese women have small fingers” … ?? ?
People make mistakes.
But making race science a hill to die on because you can't admit a mistake really is something.
https://bsky.app/profile/jackq.bsky.social/post/3lpwdnnfxws2p
They're "normal" hands. I know that racism is the point, but they couldn't be any more incorrect. NY Times can't fall anymore, though they're trying.
—Charlie Stadtlander
…so that “ small hands “ story doesn’t even hold up!!!
Do young Chinese♀️actually have smaller fingers than young♀️of most countries? What's the comparison to young Vietnamese women? Young American♀️? Young British♀️, Young Indian♀️? Young Japanese♀️? Young Thai♀️? Young Korean♀️?
If so, they should cite the study.
Otherwise, utter thoughtless B.S.
Height for women in China is 10 cm less than it is in Bosnia, why is it such a big deal to assume that their average handsize is also smaller? Source would be better but its not a wild claim. What am i missing?
Thats why i don't get the outrage over perceived racism on the journalists side when there are real forced labour camps in China producing stuff for American companies
Gross.
There's nothing homogeneous about it.
The reason nationality matters is that they don’t have many (if any) child labor laws. These “young women” are women just the same as a 12-yo rape victim becomes a “promiscuous young woman” to the anti-abortion crowd. 🫠
https://chinalaborwatch.org/investigation-of-an-apple-supplier-pegatron-kunshan-report-in-2023/
Their lack of consistent, reliable, routine enforcement is widely known and well documented. I’ve provided three sources on that already.
China has very high educational attainment and the International Labour Organization has literally not found a single case of child labour in China since they ratified the Minimum Age Convention 1999.
In this case, politicians were demoted and expelled from the party for allowing child labour in their province.
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-10/22/content_6195174.htm
This is the only logical explanation for the claim!
https://bsky.app/profile/kittywashere.bsky.social/post/3lpxpi6i6rs2d
Waiting @nytimes.com for the follow-up article on how tacit generalities about “small hands” are being used to normalize labor exploitation.
Expect I may be waiting a long time🪑🕸️
I’m so confused about the boundaries.
<3
Michael Ba
baro. On today’s
show: how
big are Chi
nese women’s
fingers
The experts:
Foxconn that make Apple Iphones is a Taiwanese company that mainly employs Chinese managers so I think you are the one making a generalization.
They claim “industry experts”
Yet, they are not in a position to tell us what makes China so amazingly adept at making these devices. Wokeness lives!
"We're simply citing what experts have said about the predictability of skull shape"
[links to Quillette]
Proofreaders do the same thing, but cheaper. Just like we'll replace writers with AI.
This is no different than “Black men have big dicks” or “Black people feel less pain” or “Asian men have small dicks.”
It’s all a part of the same racist pseudoscience bullshit.
Watching the clip: NOPE! She out loud said Great White Hope.
Among my many clear-cut appraisal failures.
Also, how does iPhone repair work exactly? I am fairly certain that those shops do not have secret Chinese women doing all the work for them.
OMFG. WTF?!
Wow, just...wow.
THAT's their source? White American 'industry experts' ???
Now it’s like listening to old man Trump. They are incoherent, racist and extreme. What happened?
@chrislhayes.bsky.social @secupp1.bsky.social
@oliverdarcy.bsky.social
[sarcasm - foot binding was a thing, though]
Trump needs Apple to commit to building iPhones here. They obviously disagree. NYT is pushing White House agenda pretty blatantly.
Ugh, i hate sounding like this. but why else?
Wow gtfo with that patronizing ass tone!!!!!
And among the lessons: The NYT *desperately* needs to reinstate a public editor.
Otherwise their response to public criticism (like yours) is: hit-or-miss; not "authoritative"; flippant; not backed by interviews with reporters and editors; etc.
That's the essence of mainstream media these days.
-NYTimes
OK, not to generalize TOO much, but it seems a fact that the ones who work on iPhones are young and have small fingers.
https://bsky.app/profile/pwnallthethings.bsky.social/post/3lpwal5udhk27
(This is sarcasm)
You might want to see this, or not tbh.
Jeeesuss
Also, what on Earth is going on with what those two NYT people have on their heads? I hesitate to call it hair.
I look forward to the views of experts and some guy who was on a podcast.
But it makes me think they're using the phrase "young women" in the same way your kindergarten teacher would.
https://static-cdn.toi-media.com/www/uploads/2018/02/sep3-e1518449972155.jpg
And their labor laws would be okay with that.
With the hosing their farmers will take with the Big Beautiful Bill there's a chance they'll need the jobs.
“There are a few Chinese misspellings and miscues — the surname Wang is not, in fact, pronounced quite as “Wong.””
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/15/books/review/apple-in-china-patrick-mcgee.html
How is any of this real life?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
And just getting madder.
Your reply was incredibly clear and extremely courteous considering the subject matter and they still do this shit
https://youtu.be/LgTLx93vyrU?si=IBI5o1q9OnKiDxYU
https://ig.ft.com/us-iphone/
Mentions 74 screws placed by hand:
Meanwhile we must think of 42 ways not to say the President is lying
Like, just say failsons
Our reporting does not make racial, genetic or newspaper generalizations, but simply cites common knowledge of the racist brainrot at your "news" paper.
I mean they also have screwdrivers right, they're not turning screws with tiny fingernails
🖕🏻
What a freakin disgrace.
He’s from the communications team? 🤯🤯🤯
Side note: with my own large hands I have successfully disassembled, repaired, and reassembled Iphones.
Smh. Doubling down on their garbage.
Maybe next they'll argue that certain races are impervious to pain or lack emotion or compassion.
This joke was literally made 35 years ago
Again
https://bsky.app/profile/pwnallthethings.bsky.social/post/3lpwal5udhk27
It's simply bizarre casual racism that assumes Chinese factories can't automate assembly and instead rely on manual labor.
Just unsubscribe already. The NYT isn’t worth the screen time it adorbs. They no longer have appropriate editorial standards. Promise you won’t miss it. It’s trash.
Well I for one am very shocked to find out that tech engineers have weird racist beliefs.
Donny has experience screwing over people.
Wonder if he'd print this sentence: "Middle-aged white women have husky, stunted fingers that lack the dexterity needed to put together the machines that connect us."
(Sorry if you were being sarcastic about the original report clearly “taking a guess” rather than being based on any reality, I’m not always good at picking up that sort of implication.)
Almost. But mainly, fuck that guy.
https://bsky.app/profile/uberpantsmonkey.bsky.social/post/3lpwa6j43rs2z
Therefore, and QED, no racism
https://www.nytco.com/person/charlie-stadtlander/
Anyway, factory child labor looks like it’s making a big comeback in the new Gilded Age
We should probably fix that
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/ny-times-killed-investigation-israeli-hooligans-internal-email-reveals
“Here, let me share a few Bible verses about Ham and how God cursed his son Canaan and his descendants.”
https://youtu.be/a6ApMPkRB_w?si=xuJDYfFL-5IFQpb3
Give 'em hell, Ms. Wong!
Looking at my own not at all small or delicate hands as I type this.
(Chinese peasant stock, I'm afraid, not optimized for tiny screws.)
Fantastic.
I am absolutely stealing it.
(You can adjust the level of profanity as you see fit)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve6I92hEozo&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5tD
https://blog.womensurgeons.org/training/the-evolution-of-women-in-surgery-defying-barriers-and-shaping-medical-history/#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Barry_(surgeon)?wprov=sfti1#
More than 80% of ob/gyn specialists are female?
Apologies if you were just making a joke about big hands that I didn't understand.
Didn't mean to minimise your decades of experience! It is kinda weird it was so male for so long.