He's been great recently, but I still remember him absolutely grilling Corbyn during the Labour Leadership, whilst giving Owen Smith the softest of interviews.
💯. Imagine the world we could have had w/ @jeremycorbyn.bsky.social & @sanders.senate.gov. Instead we get Trump & most likely that "reform" grifter! The media are culpable, as they constantly push & normalise their vile views!
One of the problems with this is that it plays into the Reform far right trumpian agenda…and the thought of Farage and Badenoch as the alternatives in the wings is truly terrifying. Where have the real leaders gone?!
There are some telling observations in this piece, but OJ's collusion with #ItWasAScam and utter dismissal of disabled people is the reason I can't finish his deranged "pick me" ramblings, so I guess my rejection of his take as "brilliant" comes from a different place than most?
Wow the replies here are a blockfest. Not a tremendous fan of Mr Jones in general but his assessment matches everything I've seen happening. Labour promised nothing of importance during the election and have somehow delivered less. The lack of leadership and seemingly will to lead is stunning.
You clearly hate Owen Jones but I can see the problem he is describing and I have only the most casual interest in the machinations of the labour party.
If the worst person you know is pointing out a real problem, their character isn't really relevant.
Oh wow, when did the British rail system get renationalised? That seems like quite a big deal. I'm sure you can provide evidence to support this claim that the British rail system has been renationalised by Starmer.
Whilst I don't doubt what he says I find Owen's writing so vitriolic and nihilistic that I'm left feeling like, fuck, what's the point of even bothering then? Might as well give Farage the keys now. If this government is truly that shite, then what the hell do we do? That's what I want to hear.
Maybe Starmer should do a Boris. Sack them all from the party and call a general election. The result wouldn't be like Boris (Reform has too much sway), but he might win with a renationalise water, rail and the NHS manifesto.
Couple of issues with this one, but i think there could be an agreement that too much influence is put on government from external forces. I wouldn't even go as far to say there is such a thing as "starmerism", we've gotten ourselves into a rather nasty tribal situation, it helps nobody.
We've gotta get beyond this anti-this and pro-that gimmickry, There's valid critiques and ideas from both sides of the equation, but finger pointing and "i told you so's" are just empty platitudes, what is needed is consensus. Which we lack at the moment.
No, not a Corbyn hater. Voted for him twice, but this is politics and when your leader brings you to defeat twice, you need to consider if what he’s doing, is failing to bring the majority with him. Might be a really lovely person, but if he can’t carry a majority, then he’s no good as a leader.
Labour vote 2017: 12,887,918
Labour vote 2019: 10,269,051
Labour vote 2024: 9,708,716
Labour policies under Corbyn were popular. Starmer is now PM because, as @owenjones.bsky.social points out here, the Tory vote went down like a jenga tower in summer 2024. https://youtu.be/i0w7_sx3Txs?si=0A7cDTpdtowzTrsr
You’re comparing apples with pears. Firstly 2019 and 2017 were primarily 2party elections whereas 2024 had reform and greens plus the liberal Democrats, who had finally managed to work out how to gain the system. Can I also remind you that coming second doesn’t mean anything in our system.
And the catastrophic collapse of the Tory vote had no bearing on the 2024 election? If that’s your takeaway from these stats, you’re welcome to it. Do listen to Owen’s video though.
Yeah, and as a result he implemented zero right-wing policies in government. Starmer is feeding the NHS to capitalists, the creative industries to AI nonsense, and trans people into graves. All of those are much worse than just being an actual left-wing opposition to a Tory government.
It was less than a few months ago that Emily Thornberry made very similar criticisms about Corbyn's aids and advisers (albeit in a far less inflammatory).
What was the response? Waves of harassment from Corbynites across social media.
Where is the demand for engaging in a bipartisan middle ground?
Frankly, if what Owen has written is true, it's a criticism that deserves to be made.
But I can't help but assume from his own history, he's not interested in holding power to account and working to improve Labour for all - he's interested in his side winning at any cost.
Yeah, I fear you're right - there was a time when the "terminally online" left was interested in winning... Now it feels like they only care about the other side losing.
I just want a return to a representational middle ground :/
I'm Australian so I'm not up on the intricacies of British political personalities. It certainly appears that the new government has no intention of making significant improvements on what the Tories did - leaving the door gaping open for the right wing to crash through.
But he's awful. Gone back on every election pledge, sucks up to genocidaires, supports the economic death knell that is Reeves... maybe read the article.
Struggling to read it. Lots about Starmer is crap, his aids are crap. Sadly Corbyn aids were too and the Labour left weren’t very nice either maybe Labour are not a very nice party as a whole…. Not sure what this rant adds to anything…
If true isnt it just stupid anyway to pave the way for 'Reform' by having an alt right puppet group running what most believe to be centre/left of centre Labour?
This makes no sense unless everyone that matters in the Labout Party is stupid but to be fair the article suggests that might just be so
You are wrong about Jones, Starmer is 1000x more dangerous. We can at least agree that PR is needed and the Labour right can stop pretending they are Labour in any sense at all.
What you dislike is people that you dismissed as "student politicians" being right about everything and you being far too proud to admit you were absolutely mugged off by Starmer and the Labour Right.
Starmer not fully in charge? Come on guys and gals - haven't you watched Yes (Prime) Minister? This revelation is nothing new. Backstabbers, gossips, underminers, snakes in the grass. Sadly that's Politics my friends. I'd still rather have an inept Starmer than an inept Johnson!
They are doing a terrible job, actually.
Probably because their advisers are political rather than competent professionals (I appreciate I am generalising)
But the hard left would not ever win elections in the UK, at this time.
Heathrow expansion, VAT on school fees, dropping wealth taxes, rowing back non-dom rules... all unforced errors which are down to a toxic mix of class war ideology and not understanding that economic growth is an illusion.
So Owen first of all castigates Starmer as some kind of Stalinist control-freak and now castigates him as a weak, helpless celebrity-obsessed talent-vacuum who is also simultaneously ruthlessly ambitious.
Tell you what, given that kind of consistency, I know who I believe.
Starmer lied; the alternatives on offer were unimpressive; the membership were traumatised and really wanted to believe that Corbyn's policies in a fancy suit - as Starmer pretended to offer - could overcome the slander and dirty tricks that had kept Corbyn himself out of Downing Street.
I truly don't know what ordinary, reasonably well-adjusted, civic-minded, Climate-Emergency-Aware voters are supposed to do now. Were it not for Trump sucking up all the oxygen, Labour's failings to date would be headlines, daily. What an absolute car crash humanity is heading for ...
I don't know much about Owen Jones and haven't read much by him, and a fair few people seem to dislike him intensely. But when I read it, it does seem to confirm my perceptions of Starmer as a member of the public.
Bearing in mind we will probably end up with a fascist Musk/Farage government in 2029 thanks to Starmer - can we please start some emergency planning and get a leftwing party established to fight reform directly?
If people realise whats happening in the US is coming here next, there'll be support.
Starmer and Labour have no plan- this has been evident since July.
Jones is spot on re the Labour Right.
Illuminating that Rayner thinks that Starmer can't run a bath.
If Labour don't get a grip soon, they will be enablers in chief of a Reform government. But, maybe that IS the plan?
I thought that the unending internal Tory psychodrama, along with the far right Tory membership, brought us that clown. As well as the refusal of Teresa May to deal with him properly 🤔
There’s no of course about it! The Back stabbing right wing of the Labour party in collusion with the right wing establishment with the biased help of the BBC & Right wing Press gleefully brought us Johnson. Quote: I worked every day to bring down Corbyn: Thats their politics but please own it.
It’s one of his best - and most desolate - pieces. The left’s lack of ability to adequately agree upon, fight for and push its ideas is one thing, but the sheer tonnage of opposition from above is another altogether, and the time for reconciling them with polite politics is well and truly over.
At least he can be held accountable, unlike the previous guys. Which is everybody's duty now, including and especially of those who supported him during the election
I’d like to think I’m not feeble minded, and I generally distrust comments with those sorts of epithets, but this article is spiteful and vitriolic, and any valid points are overshadowed by OJ s personal dislike of KS. And I am well to the left of Starmer.
Starmer's fans seem as thin-skinned and intolerant as the man himself. They can't handle any criticism of their hero and shoot the messenger every time.
These folk will never admit that they helped Johnson every step of the way by refusing to back the alternative. It's why they have to invent rubbish about Corbyn and everyone who agrees with him.
I already did it directly to Oj before blocking him, but the potted version is that any valid points he may have are completely overshadowed by his vitriolic animosity to KS which makes him indulge in factually inaccurate hyperbole. And I’m not a Starmer lover.
Everything in this article is correct though. Wrong is no less wrong and vacuous is no less vacuous when your team does it.
Starmer is a bad man and bad prime minister, governing in the interests of lobbying groups, bigots and the rich at the expense of the working class - a continuation of toryism.
To be fair, Starmer makes it easy for you to hate him. He's a coward, a panderer and a double-talking flip-flopper. Entirely unsuited to lead a cub scout group, never mind a country.
Behind his clear dislike of Starmer and the people around Starmer I think there is a lot of truth in what he is saying. Starmer has 4 and a half years to prove him wrong.
If the corbynite left don’t get behind starmer then we’ll end up with a reform govt and it will be their fault. When did solidarity become a dirty word for the left?
No, if Starmer carries on enacting Tory/Blairite policies, we'll end up with a reform government. Socialists are not here to suck up Starmer's treacherous ineptitude.
And that makes my point exactly. starmer is a compromise but it is that compromise made Labour electable. I support personally maintaining an ideology but wrestling power away from rightwing parties is more important than sitting in opposition and arguing for those ideologies in their perfect form.
For as long as people take that approach, politicians will modify policies according to 'voter appeal'+ pleasing investors, rather than establish authentic policies. If KS/RR had run on current policies who would have voted Labour? Compromise is one thing, abandoning principles is taking it too far.
I think voters were clear they were getting a centre left govt. that’s why we won. If leftwing labour voters voted starmer expecting to get corbyn .. i feel that was an unrealistic idea. I offer our labour government support knowing it is so much better than the right of centre alternatives.
I understand your thinking. I voted green. I would have compromised similarly but couldn't stomach voting for anyone supporting (words and deeds) the slaughter of Palestinians. I don't know what it would take to resolve that other than an entirely different party culture.
It was pretty clear they weren't going to be "centre-left" on account of having purged the left prior to the election. They were always going to be a 2015 tribute act who got lucky because the Tories imploded.
It's objectively worse for trans kids, trans adults, disabled people, and the not-quite-poorest OAPs. It's worse for anyone who uses the NHS, because they are privatising it harder than the Tories were.
We have got an autocratic RW govt not a centre left one. That’s why progressives are appalled at labour. They are not an alternative to right of centre
He is a weathervane waiting to be spun by the wind of public opinion, but not even a lap behind. The race has ended before he is even off the starting blocks
I now wish I hadn't deleted my twitter account so I could smugly retrieve my tweet from before the election where I state that the Labour right in charge will be worse than the Tories because they're desperate to prove they can be cruel.
They changed my boundary lines so I didn’t feel that sense of loyalty to the Labour candidate. It made my decision that bit easier. Well done for going with your gut and your heart.
The opening line was a turn off. I will continue to support Labour in spite of them never producing a leader I could get 100% behind on 100% of the issues 100% of the time.
Horrifying. Starmershit has broken EVERY campaign promise at the behest of his hellish little middle-manager minions.
Rayner should have done a coup on him. Why didn't she?
Fantastic insight and analysis. A strategy that is deceitful in the extreme. Silently dropping or distorting parts of their mandate and enacting a right-wing wet dream. It’s private over public interest yet again. Is a viable alternative too much to ask?
It would be fascinating to see the delulu centrists in your replies engage with the content of the article rather than rushing in to announce their loathing of Owen Jones, but it seems their poverty of intellect and imagination prevents them from doing that.
Citation needed. Heterosexual male left-wing writers don't attract the same volume of comments or the same fanatic monomaniacal posters. Only non-white women writers get the same level of bullshit from commenters.
Owen Jones would get a pass for being gay & a journo, if he were a Tory as well. What the haters *oppose* is people being Left wing, but their hatred turns to obsession if their target is part of an oppressed or marginalised group.
Yes, the comment threads didn't do a lot to say what was wrong with Jones's analysis besides the fact they hate him.
I would have liked to see references to policies of Starmer's they agreed with and evidence that his government was doing a good job to reverse the inherited mess.
Sorry, George. I like and admire you but can't take seriously someone who made the case for Lexit. There are better people criticising Starmer. Even myself.
The extremes of the Labour, and any party infact, are very unpleasant Owen. You yourself are very unpleasant to people in the party. We reap what we sow - you do know that? Don’t be faux shocked by people that apply your tactics for their own ends.
To be honest, George, the language Owen uses is somewhat intemperate and rather undermines his argument. It smacks of someone nursing a grudge rather than reasoned dialectic. Sadly there has been a decline in journalistic standards as well as political debate in the last 30 years.
I don't understand why ppl here are putting down @owenjones.bsky.social. Are they all Tories? I don't agree with everything, but Corbyn would've been better than Johnson. Why do you think the UK press eviscerated him?
Jones at least believes in fairness for the working class. We're being screwed.
No, I’m not a Tory and I voted for Corbyn, but in politics you move on and part of the reason that Johnson got elected was because for many people Corbyn was a complete no-no.
Hard to have any fellow-feeling for the voters who thought Corbyn was a complete no-no but Johnson was a pretty smart option. Those people should get what they deserve and then some. And look, it seems they are.
No. They're stupid 'Labourites' (note quotation marks) who think lurching further to the right/'triangulation'/letting Nazis move the Overton window is a brilliant idea. Note the idiots who said that Corbyn was entirely responsible for Bozo!!!!!
Whilst the wealthy enjoy their tax dodges and tax havens, we're paying a more disproportionate amount in tax than the 1%. That's why everything is in decline, and it all started with Reagan/ Thatcher. We need our tax system and laws reviewed and simplified.
I'm a tad man, more than that I'm a geek for the history of tax. One thing that's always fascinated me is how tax avoidance used to be treason. I can't remember if it was a high or low treason but because your avoidance hurt every single person in the country you had to die for it. Now, now we give
Help to the evaders. We give them chance after chance to make things right. So prosecutions are low.
Anyway...
"if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger, how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man who breaks the law out of greed?"
I read this last night and passed it along to a few people. It speaks volumes and helps explain his lack of fighting words against the new playground bully.
Helps to know what you're up against if you want to change it.
It’s the first thing of Owen Jones I’ve that I’ve agreed with for some time. I’m still inclined to see him as some kind of left wing populist columnist who needs to be contradictory to make a living but he has it spot on here
Ridiculously self-referential and reliant on remarkably little and unisource evidence....pretty standard for Owen Jones (who really is not 'great'!!!!).
Still - I don't disagree with the main substance. Most people I know have come to that conclusion without having to suffer Jones' narcissism.
To be honest I'm more worried about the devastation going on in America and the tsunami coming to our shores than whether Owen Jones likes Keir Starmer. He would have written the same article about Atlee. I'd agree about worrying signs but Corbyn didn't win.
It's almost as if the two things are related. It is foolish not to see that american fascism has already landed here and is growing. Starmer has done fuck all to stop it. Wouldnt even ban billionaire interference because Lord Alli intervened. Utter joke and no better than Cameron's tories.
Corbyn didn’t win because the absolute f*ckery of the Labour right. They had to pad the People’s Vote to it for it to work a 2nd time - and now it seems everyone who fell for that astroturfed BS cannot speak of it for fear of admitting their previous Starmer effed them over.
I have read it and I still think it’s yet another Owen Jones hatchet job on the center left of the Country in general( because even Centrist Lab is on the left) and Starmer in particular. I’m sad because I admire what he writes about Gaza, but I’ve just had to block him as I can’t stand any more.
WADR please check out what Centrism actually translates into in reality: e.g. why MLK said moderates were worse than the KKK.
The pattern of naive + malicious Centrists not just keeping the Right in power, but pushing them *further right* is a decades-old cycle too few are willing to learn from
🤷🏻♀️
I too am worried about what’s going on in America but as Owen’s analysis shows it is not about whether you like Starmer or not, it is the continuing of failed neoliberal policies of the past 45 yrs by #UKlabour enabling a British ‘Trump’ that is the frightening prospect. Attlee wasn’t a neoliberal.
I read it yesterday, George. It's not really what I call journalism. It's a shame, as Jones has written some great stuff in the past, but these days seems more concerned with bitter personal attacks & cultivating his following. (But I'll probably be harangued now for being 'a centrist' or something)
"...the Labour Right was politically and intellectually bankrupt. It then had years in exile to try and do something about that, to come up with a coherent Labour Right plan for turmoil-defined Britain. And guess what: they came up with nothing."
"So they lied to get elected, by signing up to left-wing policies they didn’t really believe in, then abandoned them by attrition in favour of… nothing."
100% reflective of my observations and those of countless others. Whether they stick with Starmer or bring Streeting in, it's game over for Britain. Probably forever. Unless Labour back benchers find a spine. Maybe that's what Jones is hoping to achieve here.
You know this kind of response could be left inside your head, right? Lest you just look like someone so entrenched in their own biases as to be beyond help.
Could be, but after many years of observation, I have concluded that Owen Jones is a moron who has never been right about anything.
From Lexit to Corbyn and a thousand tweets in-between, he is little more than a professional contrarian who spends his days blocking anyone who attempts to debate him.
He’s talking about what it was revealed that Starmers staffers think of him in a new book. So it’s whether you trust Starmers staff and the books authors tbf
He is practically invisible when aiding and abetting America and Israel to commit war crimes. Yet up he pops to defend them at any opportunity. He is a stooge, a shill, a useless turd of a man. Spineless, soulless, moral less appeaser.
We can see the truth of this by looking at what Labour has done…. Nothing. The most vulnerable are poorer and Labour just got its knickers in a twist over a foreign exchange programme.
Rowed back on non doms and next month the disabled are going to be punished for being disabled.
It’s pathetic.
Jones is normally on the money, and he is here too. His problem is that he is incredibly arrogant and unlikeable, and therefore, he will never reach a wide enough audience.
I'm not happy about a fair amount from the gov, but this is largely gutter journalism.
I've read it and it's pretty unedifying. It's mainly a personal attack piece from someone who is obviously very bitter.
The way he laps up the obvious attack piece from The Times is instructive.
It's very difficult to know what is correct or not, it's mainly selective hearsay coupled with vitriolic attacks from Jones.
This is the problem, perhaps there's lots of truth in here, but Jones is not someone who many people believe would be objective reporting on this.
I just don't think there is much hard evidence in the article, it's obviously convinced you, but maybe it was just confirming what you already thought.
I have read it, gosh I wish Owen had remained as anti Brexit as much as he remains anti Starmer, given his turn around on that he lost high ground he could have had, as for calling Reform “right of centre” rather than far right ! cowardly,any points in this I may agree with are drowned unfortunately
Large swathes of what he says make absolutely sense. But like several of the comments below, I don't like Jones either, although I would, and have just, link to his comments where he does make sense. For me, the way out of this is a Rayner-led Labour coup.
Owen has made many, many mistakes.
Much of which was because he paid too much attention to the right’s claim of antisemitism.
He’s apologised for his many mistakes, for that I do admire him, but fully understand why many can’t forgive him.
I started reading it, George but it's horrible from the outset and I don't recognise it. Jones is always extreme and frankly quite vengeful. He's not very nice, at all. I give the people he criticises more credence than I do him. I do like your views when I've seen them on TV. Never Jones, nutter.
5 seats to a majority in government in 5 years time is the sort of extreme fantasy thinking that is classic Jones, less the nastiness that is also Jones.
Tories are least liked for good reason. BadEnoch is predictably abhorrent & a poor public speaker. She's awful. Starmer is no orator either but he's getting on with business of government & getting the rotten stuff done up front. He's suffering a moment of discontent. That should change. #Briturn
He’s mostly quoting sourced reports, not-anonymous people who have quite a bit of up close experience and correctly characterizing what is being said. He’s not very nice? Have you considered the chaos & suffering caused by the people & power Mr Not-Nice is actually reporting on? Doesn’t move you?
I've read it. I used to be a fan of Owen Jones, but recently I find him vindictive and gossipy. I no longer consider him a serious, insightful commentator.
"The right-wing faction of the Labour party are some of the most vicious, unpleasant people you are very likely to meet in British politics. And given British politics is a cesspit, that’s quite the bar to surpass."
I often disagree with whatever point Monbiot is making, but I am always certain he's arguing from a place of conviction not expediency. And he always presents solid arguments.
I frankly couldn't adore George more. I have learnt much from his essays and books.
He is such an exquisite writer - and his whole heart is invested into trying to save our planet. I'm always surprised when people don't adore him as much as I do.
I have other words to describe what I think about George and his decades of efforts for all of us, but I'm not going to express them here as it will get way too gushy.
I have read it, twice now, and it comes across as a bitter attack from a jilted sixth former.
Jones has never got over Corbyn losing twice, to be fair I was gutted as well, but chose pragmatism rather than bile and hatred.
Ah yes the pragmatism of hurting the most vulnerable for peanuts whilst allowing those who have taking the piss for decades to keep on amassing that wealth. Fool.
In political parties are there always people looking out for themselves? Yes. Are there power brokers who are directing policy and/or strategy? Are there conflicts? Yes. Beyond basic political reality, this is the hyperbolic vindictive diatribe from the very start to the end that I expected.
Because that would involve accepting the premise that someone who has been, at best, disingenuous, and, at worst, flat out wrong on everything ever related to this topic is now all of a sudden honest and right about it.
I gave up reading Owen Jones' articles after the 2019 election when I realised that he was just totally out of touch with what was really going on in the country.
Bloody hell, yes. I'm not a fan of much of OJ's writing, but this. Every sentence. Every word. I guess I have not been paying enough attention, but to me it is a revelation that explains so, so much. Thank you for linking to it.
Similar wrt to jones. I've never been particularly ideological. I thought corbyn was pretty much as low as the party could go. Yet Starmer caused me to leave in'22 after more than 30 years of active membership.
Jones' final paragraph says it all. It's a chuffin nightmare.
Blimey, reading this thread leads me to believe we are getting the politicians we deserve. What happened to reasoned argument and analysis? What hope for the reimagining a of different ecosystem for civil society governance and provision?
Beige people really are so readily manipulated. The useful lines for asset stripping rich bastards come sailing out of you like you think you thought of them.
You really believe this shambles is what we deserve rather than the 2019 Labour manifesto? Idiot.
What a pompous ass. You were dismissing out of hand an analysis of what a shame and a mess our political representatives are, because someone once changed their mind and got behind the best option the country had for generations.
Reading before having opinions on a text and everything else around it at the same time, is so oldfashioned, time-consuming, might cause a headache and tasking as it demands previous knowledge, values abt politics, history, your
Owen on Starmer. "he is essentially a useless, boring clown who just exists to take up space and be told what to do: some sort of giant potato with a face someone hastily scrawled on." I find these offensive personal attacks completely counterproductive in unmasking the system that is at fault.
Owen was once a political weathervane, with endless contradictory articles riling up the Labour Left 😾 But sometime in the last few years, he’s had a ‘Road to Damascus’ experience and has gone fully Left, with his whole heart.
Kudos to him for getting behind his ephinany and going fully IN 🔥✊
Oh hello, maybe he learned nothing at all. Seems he saw not a single reason why single issue/non voting in the recent USA election would result in a Trump win and his long intended annexation of Gaza. Blaming those that saw this happening from years away is a bit fricken rich @owenjones.bsky.social
The U.S. was in a very similar position. Bernie was correct, the left was correct, and the center left /Democratic right will never forget it. Where did that take us? Back to Trump.
George I don't think you have people open to reasoned debate commenting.
They're attack dogs, that are trying to overwhelm the comments to keep the right wing narrative going.
Funded or brainwashed by a certain influence.
Nope. Not Jones. He's been wrong about everything for decades. After his ridiculous faux outrage over someone using the expression "call off the dogs", I decided never to take anything he says seriously thereafter. He's the Alisson Pearson of the left.
What about those who have read it? Seems like typical Jones fare - bringing himself into the story, presenting hearsay and gossip (and in some case what sound like quotes but aren't), and lacing every word with his distain for Labour factions not aligned with him.
For anyone who takes it seriously, but struggles with the length of the article or hasn't got the time to read it all, here's a video Owen did, which summarises the content.
Owen Jones doesn’t deserve to be heard, particularly about Labour. He lost any chance of that when he betrayed them before the last election. A bitter contrarian who makes his money sniping from the sidelines. Bollocks to him and his ‘opinions’.
I’ve read it. He hates Starmer. Don’t disagree with his assessment of ‘middle management’ levels for him/team but I’m picturing Jones, his arms are crossed with a told you so grin. What on earth does he expect after 14 years of destruction from a new admin under exceptional geo political conditions?
I mean, not immediately making cuts to the winter fuel allowance their big headline? Owen’s right that it was a completely self-sabotaging act of cluelessness.
It isn't Owen's analysis as such it is mainly extracts from those inside Labour. I think that it is a quite plausible explanation of the duplicitous Starmer and the power of corporate lobbies. Makes sense to me.
My biggest issue with Jones is the lack of balance
Labour inherited a huge debt and public services in meltdown after 14 disastrous years of tory rule
Labour had big tax rises and public borrowing to help deal with this
But no recognition from Jones, nor credit for the wmWorkers Rights Act
Why not just read the story and take issue what he’s said rather than get angry about what he’s not said ? …
Also, if centrists were pro balance they wouldn’t of expelled thousands of members and got rid of some of their more left leaning politicians from the party.
I read the story, as I've read many of his, my post was about his lack of balance
A while ago I interacted with him on X, pointing this out and at the time for every post critical of Reform/Tories, he had 10 critical of Labour
I'm sorry you didn't understand that or perhaps didn't read my post...
Yeah, centrists would rather engage in constant identity politics and culture wars whilst screaming at Reform and the Tory’s than reflect on their own politics..
it’s clear from the replies to this that centrists would rather remain ignorant and in denial than admit Jones might have a point.
This is why social democracy will never thrive in the UK. Centrism and leftism hate each other as much as left v right. One thing we could learn from the devious right.
Memorandum from Sir Keir Starmer to British Ministers:
When you are asked about the 'Riviera of the Middle East', remember, the correct reponse is, Two-state solution, hostages, hostages, two-state solution.( If you're stuck, just talk about the great holiday you had on the Riviera that year.)'
(Non-Brit) I find it sad that many ignore the most important aspect of this, the causes of the miserable failure of the centrist progressives - all around the world, in favour of internecine shitfights about personalities
The Right/Far Right is ascendent and you sad fucks are squabbling like kids
I laughed. In the face of enabling one of the worst genocides in modern history, the egregious transfer of wealth and immiseration of the waged, continued destruction of our planet - liberal centrists waive tepid achievements and bleat that it "could have been worse". Sure. Big whoop.
We're seeing how much worse it could have been right now. A centrist who isn't in league with Putin and tech oligarchs to undermine democracy and the rule of law looking pretty good by comparison, actually. You set out great goals - do you know how to bring the current electorate along with you?
And did you notice the bit where JC ( who I voted for both times) led to failure and Johnson. I don’t know why the left can’t see that there are not enough people in the country that share their point of view to enable them to get elected. And I say that in sorrow, not anger because I wish there wer
That utterly reliable, non-starmer hating Jones. Yeah, that's the kind of unbiased reporting I'm looking for. It was neither "brilliant" nor any more terrifying than realising that Starmer and Reeves have made the usual rookie mistakes of Civil Service capture.
And yet Starmer was the lynchpin connecting the weaponization of AS and Labour's Brexit (SR policy), which the media used to drive their animus against Corbyn.
He was interesting when he first came to the fore circa 2011, but that ended a long time ago. His passion for Corbyn was very limited at the beginning, and he jumped on the bandwagon when Corbyn was on the up. A lot of that article leans on far too many hypotheticals
Agreed. And I'm afraid I didn't find this piece to be very good analysis, terrifying or otherwise. It's a lot of exhausting, breathless, emotive rhetoric: personal attack in place of actual policy critique.
I remember him on Twitter urging people to overthrow the democratically-elected MP for Uxbridge at the time (whom I loathe, to be clear), just a few weeks or months after urging us all to accept the democratic vote at the EU Referendum. When I pointed this out he was dismissive.
his article is correct though. (And he blocked me). People have to get past the genetic fallacy: it doesn't matter who says what: what matters is the content of what they say.
This is true, dare I say even Peter Hitchens talks some sense sometimes (regards British myths post WW2 (phoney victory) Regarding OJ, this comes across as a rant, nonetheless what he says does seem 2 be broadly a correct analysis
Also Joe Rogan is really good on drug reform (saying it should be legal to have MDMA therapy or use psychedelics for therapy). So yeah sometimes bad ppl or idiots also say good things.
yes precisely, the interesting thing about the left wing attack on Starmer is that it can sound bitter (it naturally is as they were purged) but it's often the most truthful as they know Starmer/McSweeney project better than anybody else such as most voters who are clueless
i dont belong 2 any faction & hate the Lab left as much as the Lab right at time tbh but i'm finding the Lab left critique of Starmer project more plausible by the day quite frankly, it doesn't seem like there's any ideology behind Starmer he's just civil servant who is being controlled by McSweeney
Owen "I wrote a book once" Jones is a lost directionless soul.
He lost all credibility when he (supposedly socialist) started writing pro-Scottish independence nonsense for the National, a pro-indy "newspaper" with the journalistic credibility of a Viz cartoon.
Where's the discussion of this administration's achievements?
Sorry, but it's impossible to view this as a balanced article.
Whatever valid points Owen makes (and there are some in here) are drowned out by the din of grinding axes.
Scathing and true. The political vacuum at the heart of the Labour (new name needed) party is quite astonishing. These over-entitled buffoons think they are “special” when the reality spelled out by Owen Jones is the opposite.
Christ, George you're followed by some rabid Starmtroopers that seem to be completely disconnected from reality. Is that who you've surrounded yourself with, is that why you were so far off base when a different future was possible? I hope you've self reflected, it's important it never happens again
Do you regret monstering Corbyn now and realise the "anti-Semitism crisis" was a concocted false flag operation instigated by those with an interest in both capitalism and Israel, often funded by either or both to make sure their interests were safe in retaining the status quo?
They crushed their left wing to a pulp to avoid any actual left wing policies. Instead they created a bland neo-liberal government that will do nothing to stop the growth of the far right and will be trashed next time election. The Labour right prefer this outcome to a left Labour government.
The Starmer Labourites do indeed seem to think that israel can engage in genocidal mass murder, as well as starving 2 million people to death and so on.
"I do think they have that right", remember? He also pretends that history began last october.
ok, well without retreading all that stuff...yes sounded bad when he said that, but he fucked up, was still answering last point and then qualified with should remain within international law. They restarted UNRWA funding, said will uphold ICC arrest of Netanyahu, and stopped some weapon shipments.
not to mention his pathos over the israelis taken as POWs (over half were active duty army) and hostages into Gaza, and his abject silence on the thousands of Palestinians held hostage by israel and routinely subjected to murder, torture, and rape. Did Keir condemn the Sde Teman rape camp?
the illegal occupation of the Golan Heights and the israeli invasion of Syria proper also preclude any israeli claims to "self defense" as well. So Keir is fundamentally wrong in all those respects-- just how international law works.
Unless you want to argue that "Russia has the right to..."
Fundamentally, israel doesn't have the right to "defend itself" as long as it engages in the illegal military occupation of Palestine and any other nation. The occupation of Lebanon's Sheba'a farms and routine violations of Lebanese sovereignty constitute acts of military aggression against Lebanon
Nope, it was mask-off for pig-faced Keir. He has also consistently repeated the lies the israeli government and military made up as part of their attempt to justify their conduct in Gaza.
notice his very emotive language when it came to everything israel, with the Palestinians as an afterthought at best. But piggy Kier is best buds with LFI so it's only to be expected.
How is that a bullseye? The only mention of Palestine is that a 23-year-old British-Palestinian came close to unseating Streeting last year. Other than that he quotes himself predicting a "toxic foreign policy", but there's nothing about Zionism or genocide. It's not what the article is about.
“You’ve just referred to Owen Jones as “the brilliant”.. For this reason alone I refuse to read this and you are now unfollowed!!”
~ your centrist followers.
I am sorry George I am a fan of yourself but I disagree the whole language of the piece demonstrates a vicious bias by Owen throughout destroying any objective observations hidden amongst his tirade.
It really is mostly he-said she-said stuff. Of course Starmer isn't an ideologue, nobody who's ever met him would think so. He was elected as a steady hand in uncertain times and that's the role he's trying to play, with mixed success.
Thank you, good answer. I know you have your disagreements with at least some of what’s going on, but wouldn’t expect you to rip into him.
I think unfortunately he’s fighting the last war, and doesn’t have the get-up-and-go to save us from the next one. No doubt our opinions on this will differ. 🙂
And why is it that the left has to say that as though they have some monopoly on the party? And I am well to the left of the storm and voted both times for Corbyn, the left-wing self-righteous purity really gets on my last nerve, and it’s why they can’t get elected
Perhaps consider policies and capabilities rather than what-you-think-they-think? For example, election pledges (Starmer) and facts provided through investigation (Jones).
Why would a Labour govt continue with conservative policy, austerity etc?
Why would Labour be siding with continued public bail outs (including increased bills) of failing utilities?
Why would Labour support genocide?
Well it shouldn’t be controversial to expect people with Tory politics to be in the actual Tory party. But the left are the one faction who can justify monopolising the party directly because the right torched the idea of a broad church in 2015.
It’s not the left who are ‘puritans’. Never has been.
Yes, and that’s the point isn’t it? There may be valid criticisms, but there are also things that have gone well that Owen will never acknowledge which invalidate him as a commentator as far as I’m concerned.
I disagree. I am not happy with some of the things they’re doing & they aren’t perfect (no Govt is), but they’re doing a lot more than the Tories ever did. For a start, they recognise that results don’t happen overnight and for real change there needs to be proactive, long term decisions made.
What do you call Reeves' austerity bullshit other than TORY COSPLAY?
Or Streeting's fascism towards the NHS?
Or Starmer having broken every campaign promise he made?
You have nothing here.
That's not true though. He stated that he deserved a chance & urged people not to quit the Labour Party before Starmer revealed he had lied about pretty much everything
That was 2020, and show me the support since he’s been in Govt? I understand he has reneged on some pledges, that’s what happens when you get into the driving seat and realise you’ve been handed a clapper out banger.
You didn’t provide the full article, perhaps Jones should take his own medicine; this particular paragraph ⬇️ shows him to be a hypocrite because he does exactly that now himself - at any and every opportunity.
Owen Jones left the Labour Party prior to the election because it became unrecognisable as a party of social democracy built by the working classes. Politics is not the same as supporting a football team. Labour has no right to anyone's unconditional support
So....Owen did give Starmer a chance, contrary to your claim. And Starmer has reneged on or watered down every single pledge, even policies that lasted as far as the manifesto. The polling suggests he's turned a clapped out old banger into a write-off
He has never given him a chance in Govt, which is a little more important than when he was running for leader 🙄. That was my point.
Time will tell, I know I’d rather have this lot than Regorm or the Tories and unfortunately the others aren’t viable options.
Comes across exactly as expected: a bitter but accurate take-down. I would expect nothing more from this artisan of intra-left infighting. No wonder Labour can’t get their head around vote reform: they can’t even contemplate sharing power with *themselves* let alone other progressive voices.
A few years ago I heard an interview with KS and thought... His heart is in the right place. Now? Even if that is still true, he is proving to be hopeless. The bitter lack of a vision from Labour is not only a dereliction of duty...it is also enabling insanity to emerge emboldened.
Strikes me is that, although prose is somewhat vehement, points he makes about Starmer are bang on, theres evidence to underpin it. Also, it mostly quotes book, not Owen himself. UK gets PM they deserve I guess, from comments on here, we dont deserve much at all. Comments read like Centrist bitching
Starmer was never flavour of the month before taking office, from his first week as PM he's been attacked by the scum right wing press, we wanted boring politics after the Tories and now people don't want that, Owen Jones is below contempt.
I doubt Owen Jones would be happy with anything, he's like a LW Farage, always carping on & criticising from the sidelines & never having to come up with any real workable solutions.
We have to climb out of a big hole dug by the Tories, before we can start applying nice to have ideologies
A coup by Labour's Racist Right against its members with the help of almost everyone in the rest of horrible London political-media clique, aimed at enabling the usual bad actors, through their lobbyists, to continue to wreck our environment and loot our society with impunity
Well said George. Judging by some of the comments to you post it seems that quite a few of the people/bots on Twitter who indulge in rubbishing individuals rather than arguments have migrated to blue sky.
Attacking Owen personally rather than his arguments, which was my point, is not ‘disagreeing’ with him. It is being abusive. Bots/trolls who do this are quite common on Twitter. I did not accuse anyone of being intellectually dishonest/challenged. Have a nice day.
Comments
If the worst person you know is pointing out a real problem, their character isn't really relevant.
Rail nationalisation important
Workers rights important
Extra council funding important
Settling strikes important
But don’t let your hatred for him blind you “bro”
Labour vote 2019: 10,269,051
Labour vote 2024: 9,708,716
Labour policies under Corbyn were popular. Starmer is now PM because, as @owenjones.bsky.social points out here, the Tory vote went down like a jenga tower in summer 2024.
https://youtu.be/i0w7_sx3Txs?si=0A7cDTpdtowzTrsr
What was the response? Waves of harassment from Corbynites across social media.
Where is the demand for engaging in a bipartisan middle ground?
But I can't help but assume from his own history, he's not interested in holding power to account and working to improve Labour for all - he's interested in his side winning at any cost.
I don't agree that he's interested in winning though. Shouting from the sidelines is so much easier.
I just want a return to a representational middle ground :/
This makes no sense unless everyone that matters in the Labout Party is stupid but to be fair the article suggests that might just be so
But I dislike Jones more.
This is a problem as a lot of what Jones says here is likely correct.
However it seems to me he's a self-serving contrarian dedicated to getting as much attention as possible.
Until we get PR though I fear nothing will improve.
Hilarious really.
💯🎯🎯🎯
It seems to me that Jones is more interested in monetizing his opposition to Starmer than actually doing anything useful.
Therefore I very little interest in what he says.
I will have a read, but fully expect disappointment.
You can't do anything unless you get power. This is what Blair understood, and Johnson, and now Starmer.
Once you have power, you need to execute. This is where things are falling apart because political parties are reliant on career advisors.
Probably because their advisers are political rather than competent professionals (I appreciate I am generalising)
But the hard left would not ever win elections in the UK, at this time.
The rest of us have to live in the real world, where Starmer has managed to get a clear majority in a general election and has inherited a huge mess.
I have a huge beef with how they are executing, to be sure.
Tell you what, given that kind of consistency, I know who I believe.
No surprise to those of us who've been watching him closely since he purged socialists from the party.
What argument is there to the contrary? He clearly stands for nothing but the status quo.
If people realise whats happening in the US is coming here next, there'll be support.
Jones is spot on re the Labour Right.
Illuminating that Rayner thinks that Starmer can't run a bath.
If Labour don't get a grip soon, they will be enablers in chief of a Reform government. But, maybe that IS the plan?
Why is it that people of the centre reflexively blame the left for what the right do?
Are you, in fact, exactly the same as a racist in Bolton when it comes to your appreciation of logic?
Starmer is a bad man and bad prime minister, governing in the interests of lobbying groups, bigots and the rich at the expense of the working class - a continuation of toryism.
I'm no expert on Winny Churchill so have no idea who may have settled up his tobacconist bills for him
but that Kier had Lord Ali get his specs makes me wonder if it's all some optical illusion.
It's objectively worse for trans kids, trans adults, disabled people, and the not-quite-poorest OAPs. It's worse for anyone who uses the NHS, because they are privatising it harder than the Tories were.
And should be for everyone
Rayner should have done a coup on him. Why didn't she?
Owen Jones would get a pass for being gay & a journo, if he were a Tory as well. What the haters *oppose* is people being Left wing, but their hatred turns to obsession if their target is part of an oppressed or marginalised group.
I would have liked to see references to policies of Starmer's they agreed with and evidence that his government was doing a good job to reverse the inherited mess.
Don't answer that, please...
Jones at least believes in fairness for the working class. We're being screwed.
🏴🏴This Is The Way🏴🏴
Anyway...
"if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger, how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man who breaks the law out of greed?"
pTerry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0w7_sx3Txs&list=WL&index=4
Helps to know what you're up against if you want to change it.
Owen is a #ToryEnabler and always has been
Still - I don't disagree with the main substance. Most people I know have come to that conclusion without having to suffer Jones' narcissism.
Anyway, good morning 😅
The pattern of naive + malicious Centrists not just keeping the Right in power, but pushing them *further right* is a decades-old cycle too few are willing to learn from
🤷🏻♀️
Making a career out of blaming everyone except Corbyn is very stale.
Exactly
Something better change.
From Lexit to Corbyn and a thousand tweets in-between, he is little more than a professional contrarian who spends his days blocking anyone who attempts to debate him.
Rowed back on non doms and next month the disabled are going to be punished for being disabled.
It’s pathetic.
I've read it and it's pretty unedifying. It's mainly a personal attack piece from someone who is obviously very bitter.
The way he laps up the obvious attack piece from The Times is instructive.
This is the problem, perhaps there's lots of truth in here, but Jones is not someone who many people believe would be objective reporting on this.
You're one of the best writers to ever write.
Reading you is always an immense pleasure, whatever the topic.
Owen is a mediocre writer, at best, who always inserts his vast neediness into every story.
This story is so polluted with himself, it's hard to see the point being made.
Much of which was because he paid too much attention to the right’s claim of antisemitism.
He’s apologised for his many mistakes, for that I do admire him, but fully understand why many can’t forgive him.
George is one of the best writers to ever write.
Reading him is always an immense pleasure, whatever the topic.
Owen is a mediocre writer, at best, who always inserts his vast neediness into every story.
I read this. It's so polluted with himself, it's hard to see the point being made.
As for the other one - you're very correct 😉
He is such an exquisite writer - and his whole heart is invested into trying to save our planet. I'm always surprised when people don't adore him as much as I do.
Jones has never got over Corbyn losing twice, to be fair I was gutted as well, but chose pragmatism rather than bile and hatred.
Jones' final paragraph says it all. It's a chuffin nightmare.
It's a shame really - he once was worth reading
You really believe this shambles is what we deserve rather than the 2019 Labour manifesto? Idiot.
I will never again willingly read Owen Jones.
Too wanky, sorry
Jones follows your quote with: 'I exaggerate a little but it’s not much less damning than what they’ve actually said.'
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmers-not-driving-the-train-confessions-of-his-inner-circle-mq2kbg39x
Kudos to him for getting behind his ephinany and going fully IN 🔥✊
They're attack dogs, that are trying to overwhelm the comments to keep the right wing narrative going.
Funded or brainwashed by a certain influence.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=i0w7_sx3Txs
Labour inherited a huge debt and public services in meltdown after 14 disastrous years of tory rule
Labour had big tax rises and public borrowing to help deal with this
But no recognition from Jones, nor credit for the wmWorkers Rights Act
Also, if centrists were pro balance they wouldn’t of expelled thousands of members and got rid of some of their more left leaning politicians from the party.
A while ago I interacted with him on X, pointing this out and at the time for every post critical of Reform/Tories, he had 10 critical of Labour
I'm sorry you didn't understand that or perhaps didn't read my post...
it’s clear from the replies to this that centrists would rather remain ignorant and in denial than admit Jones might have a point.
https://bylinetimes.com/2024/12/20/labour-government-annoucements-explained/
When you are asked about the 'Riviera of the Middle East', remember, the correct reponse is, Two-state solution, hostages, hostages, two-state solution.( If you're stuck, just talk about the great holiday you had on the Riviera that year.)'
The Right/Far Right is ascendent and you sad fucks are squabbling like kids
See the problem?
Remember kids when smashing the state keep a smile on your lips and a song in your heart.
Be well.
Can we hope that it’s also off beam?
And resent his Brexit bad takes and consequences.
I refuse to give traffic to anyone that publishes that fool.
Shitty Victim blaming
But I have limited time so have to decide about how and on whom I spend it.
He lost all credibility when he (supposedly socialist) started writing pro-Scottish independence nonsense for the National, a pro-indy "newspaper" with the journalistic credibility of a Viz cartoon.
Pity.
Sorry, but it's impossible to view this as a balanced article.
Whatever valid points Owen makes (and there are some in here) are drowned out by the din of grinding axes.
"I do think they have that right", remember? He also pretends that history began last october.
Unless you want to argue that "Russia has the right to..."
There’s only one problem.
Owen Jones wrote it.
Hahaha hahahaha
Breathe
Hahahahahah
Don’t read his stuff at all now.
~ your centrist followers.
Pick a side.
I think unfortunately he’s fighting the last war, and doesn’t have the get-up-and-go to save us from the next one. No doubt our opinions on this will differ. 🙂
Pardonsorrywhat?
https://youtu.be/wA1npCFJTTM?si=eiy9rfyqHKRSammd
Ann Harris you have said it yourself!
It a right wing party.
Why would Labour continue and expand authoritarianism both within the party, and public law?
Does any of this sound left wing or even centrist?
Give us back our Labour Party!
Why would a Labour govt continue with conservative policy, austerity etc?
Why would Labour be siding with continued public bail outs (including increased bills) of failing utilities?
Why would Labour support genocide?
It’s not the left who are ‘puritans’. Never has been.
Or Streeting's fascism towards the NHS?
Or Starmer having broken every campaign promise he made?
You have nothing here.
Time will tell, I know I’d rather have this lot than Regorm or the Tories and unfortunately the others aren’t viable options.
But then he was never going to be happy with whoever followed magic Grandpa.
We have to climb out of a big hole dug by the Tories, before we can start applying nice to have ideologies
A coup by Labour's Racist Right against its members with the help of almost everyone in the rest of horrible London political-media clique, aimed at enabling the usual bad actors, through their lobbyists, to continue to wreck our environment and loot our society with impunity
If someone has to resort to vitriol and personal attacks then their argument is weak.