stop trying to tell me about Linux! I have gone 38 years without learning anything other than there's a sickly penguin and a red hat! Normal people do not experience Linux! For shame!
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I'm a normal person, maybe a tiny bit tech savvy, and I know ABOUT Linux. I worked at a place once where all their computers ran Linux and it was AMAZING.
However, I don't have the mental bandwidth to install it on my personal computer, and fight compatibility issues.
Exactly. It kicks ass but sharing a file with somebody from a Windows environment may be an issue, depending on the software. The open source spreadsheet software is NOT totally compatible with Excel, for instance.
I would phrase it more as totally NOT compatible. I once tried to port over a sheet with lots of INDIRECT formula. It was not fun.
And, last time I looked, the OO word predecessor still didn't have a way to search for a new paragraph mark
So a data center where I was working had Ubuntu installed on all of the workstations, and I used Linux for an entire week before I realized that it wasn't Windows. That was what got my foot in the door.
Within a few months I was using it at home. I'm not going to try and evangelize about it to the average casual end user. So much is easier/simpler on Windows, and is going to stay that way. But I like it.
Setting it up is a lot easier than it used to be. The installation walks you through most of it when installing Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and a lot of other distros I use. Steam runs on it. I can run Skyrim SE, but not Blizzard games. I use Firefox, VLC, GIMP, Libreoffice, Rhythmbox.
I concur, as a linux user.
They don't think about the steps of making a bootable USB to install linux from and setting the computer to boot from it. Joe Average isn't going to get that done, he's going to get Windows with the computer and use it until Microsoft says it's time to buy a new one.
Ed, Linux isn't inherently more difficult than windows. Most people are just used to all the quirks of Windows. It's the default on most laptops and part of how they maintain their user share. My own mum has been using a Linux computer for years and hasn't noticed. It's all web browsing anyway!
I've never seen the godfather. I've never seen goodfellas. I think I'd like both these movies but nevertheless I have committed to not seeing them as the longer I go the funnier it is.
I'm a linux user & even use it exclusively. I'm currently writing this from my Thinkpad (ifykyk) and laughing up a god damn fit, we're truly the worst.
Friend of mine who works in IT is trying to pick a laptop that suits his needs and the number of times he found something close in specs and build quality but has some sort of Linux driver issues is incredible. Certainly not something for anyone who just knows how to open chrome and word.
I still have to install it now since it doesnt come on laptops and no it being the backend on ChromeOS I dont see or have to mess with is not the same thing.
i have easily half a dozen peripherals on my main stream/gaming machine that do not have linux drivers and the last thing i want to do with my life is spend it being that one guy that the company's support team HATES because he just makes sock puppet accounts all day to ask "linux drivers when?????"
That's why it exists: it's a Unix-like OS, and Unix exists for the benefit of programmers. Everyone else is always going to be second, at best. That's inherent to what the thing is.
Source: Am programmer. Am Linux user for 20+ years. Am not someone who evangelizes operating systems.
I take average user to mean someone who wants to use a computer without any hassle whatsoever. That's me and that's my experience of Linux. I turn it on, use it, and switch it off. No bullshit.
The average user spends every computing minute they can spend using their phone or tablet, because they actually work, and only use desktops or notebooks when forced to.
Ooh. This is interesting. I realize that I don't disagree with you at all, but at the same time I recognize that, as a programmer, I'm not able to objectively process your statement to the full extent that it deserves. That realization piques my interest and vexes me at the same time.
The thing is...nothing...is for normal people at this point. At *best* most electronics exist to be just acceptable enough to entice them to be the product.
As much as Ed disagrees, I wonder if Windows 11 and Mac OS X are for "normal people." I think Ed and we in this thread might not be talking about "normal people" but a band of users between "normal" and "power." Don't want to sudo apt-get update but also don't want their desktop on OneDrive.
Vastly superior in most aspects except for fringe use case demands of normies like me and for rapid productivity increases to please our shareholder overlords.
windows is for my workstation and laptop, and linux is for my horrible hacked-together single-purpose boxes where every second of exposure in my leisure time makes me wonder if i'm secretly a masochist :)
I'd argue that most normal people don't know about the penguin. They probably mostly think they don't want Linux because Linux is for hackers. And they're probably not entirely wrong on that.
This is accurate. I was in the tech industry for 10 years, and now work with the public at a library. I have people come in who don't know how to tell what is a spam message, let alone mark it as spam. Throwing Linux at them is just cruel.
lol, I agree most normal people never use anything Unix /Linux . I only used it because work at a point. There was a period I saw people who were becoming ticked with MS and the uptick in cost of Windows. Back when you had to buy actual discs to upgrade. A rare few jumped on Linux in the 90’s
Ed enters his fin-dom era, calling every network support tech on his subscribers list a "wet baby" and "speaker of the Devil's tongue," daring them to cancel his newsletter
what the normal person goes through with tech. which is the point of the exercise.
and all the business decisions that take these wonderful tools and turn them horrible in the name of profit and power.
The thing is we don't actually benefit any more from essayists regurgitating familiar experiences followed by obvious conclusions. That's a thing from the days of print magazines, 35¢ Cokes and long distance bills.
Peppering your posts with I DON'T WANT A SOLUTION, I WANT TO COMPLAIN isn't helping.
People who don't do it every day might not have counted up how much of the process is ads or how many user agreements there are. I work in tech and I don't know, I last set up a computer like 8 years ago, though I will be doing another windows box soon.
I work in tech. Part of my job is programming. I'm The Tech Guy to a lot of my coworkers. I don't use Linux, it's too fiddly and painful even for ordinary things. I use a Chromebook, even though it's a horrible corporate BS, because I don't want to troubleshoot the sound drivers every week...
...which was my experience of Ubuntu when I was in college. You want the average person to use Linux? Make it accessible to the average person, not a tech enthusiast you think is average, to the person who just wants music streaming and web browsing and email.
Let me help you: Linux Mint is like when you brush your teeth but for the computer. You're gonna need to grab a whole tube of toothpaste, unscrew the cap, shove it into a USB port and squeeze. Make sure you get it all in there or the bits won't be fresh and clean, they could get gingabyteis
Also: great research. That feels super important to do. I haven't bought an off the shelf computer in like 15 or 20 years, I forgot how bad it was even then. I don't even know where to start to think about regulating or changing it, MSFT is so far gone from consumer advocacy
The number of times you explained that the purpose of the exercise is to replicate the experience of a general audience, just to get specialist responses, says something about the problem of specialist thinking too
I've tried to explain this to other Linux people...your average person who mostly just uses a browser probably COULD use Linux now, especially with Steam's Proton stuff making gaming more compatible.
But they need to be able to walk into Best Buy and get a pre installed Linux laptop.
It's a bit more than this. Familiarity with the UX is key. As a gamer since the 80's that built rigs at times. I never went near Linux, since it didn't support Civ/HalfLife/skyrim/Fallout.
Lack of familiarity becomes a hurdle (I can use a Mac, but I dread it). Linux is a real challenge for newbies
I “tried” mint on my daily driver as a dual boot about 2 months ago. I’ve booted into windows maybe two times since. It feels familiar to use and has actually been easier since I never have to fight it. Feels like all the parts of windows I like and none of the parts I dislike.
It took me about 4 hours to go from “this is going to be an effort, Linux is hard” to deciding I’d been needlessly averse to it on an assumption it would be a foreign experience, ala using a mac. For a lot of people if you could just put a linux laptop in front of them, they would be fine.
It doesn't matter what you do with Linux's UI or whatever now, unless you can just hand it ready to go to average people it doesn't matter. They don't install OSes. The Year Of The Linux Desktop won't happen until that.
Agreed. I'm not a nerd and I'm running current Ubuntu on a 2009 vintage iMac and installing and updating the thing is still messy. I do enjoy running Edge and Office365WebDesktop on it though. Seems counterproductive to do that but I have to be aligned with my other (nonWindows) machines.
People are quite literally going to Amazon and buying whatever has five stars, unless that can be a Linux laptop it's not going to happen and Linux people think they can program something to change that lmao
Problems like things breaking with updates or whatever, that happens with windows too and they can't fix that any better so I think that is a horizontal move for average users.
But it's dead in the water for normal users if step 1 is make a boot drive.
I have what I call my “engineer brain,” but that part isn’t my communicator brain, and it certainly isn’t my “care for others because it’s the right thing to do,”
brain. The engineer brain shouldn’t be used for social programs.
Hearing this makes me glad I didn't spend the $200 CDN for a Win 11 license.
I went with Linux, but I have had enough experience with it that it was relatively smooth transition from Win 10.
in fairness, ubuntu is a preexisting word, but i suppose considering if youre encountering it in a tech context it will probably be devoid of its context as a non-english word so it makes sense that it'd sound weird
The majority of people would be fine with just ChromeOS. Only runs a browser, can run Android apps if you absolutely need it (which you don't, for the most part). A shame Google does its best to not actually advertise it to consumers.
I started out reading this whole thread for amusement, then could not stop. It is like watching moths being drawn to a flame. 🤷
I eventually started blocking people just out of principle. I figure it isn't good for me to watch this, and they most likely would keep doing it. I can't look any more.
I don't think "normies" should use anything else than a Chromebook. Both Windows and MacOS are way too complex to use and maintain, and too much of a security risk. And actually Windows seems more like an ad platform than Chromebook...
This is a bad idea. A Chromebook is a data farm directly connected to Google. Everything you do on it is an open surface for data risk. If you want something portable and approachable and safe (as you can reasonably get for a normie), give them an iPad with a keyboard case.
Don’t use chrome or edge. Use (in general order of increasing security) Safari, Firefox, or the Mullvad Browser. If you’re on that iPad system, just use the safari browser with tracking turned off and IP masking turned on in settings.
There is def. a subset of people who only use a browser, yes, but even they benefit from having choice in what they install and use to browse. A chromebook takes away all choice from the user, and as soon as the user attemts to do anything more than 'browse' with it, they are promptly suplexed.
That's not my experience. I could run Word and all on my old one. I miss it and hate my windows machine so much. If I try to use anything other than Edge it slows it the fuck down to be nearly unusable.
Yeah, the one decent thing about Chromebooks is how lightweight the OS is, and Windows has been more and more bloated. It's certainly quite frustrating to watch happen.
Though, in my experience, the lightweight nature of ChromeOS has generally been abused to gut the specs and create a worse product
I needed to get a laptop for the kid early in the pandemic and the experience of setting up windows got me annoyed enough that I went with linux when I got a desktop. Wanted to be able to play games so Mac wasn't really an option.
It feels much less work-y than I'd initially expected.
But I also get why it's still not for everyone (some game config stuff was quite obnoxious) and why Ed is actively avoiding it for his "typical experience" evaluation.
I did not recommend it to my dad. Likewise for homeassistant.
I'm mostly kidding, it's not that bad with modern day Linux. I was a big enough proto-nerd back in the day to partition the hdd of my parent's computer and install slackware on it and that was paaaaaaaain! For no appreciable reason! lol
I was one of the founders of a Linux consultancy company start of 2000's. I have long since stopped advocating Linux for anything below advanced users.
that might be a little much for a regular user. have you considered TempleOS? it's great for retirees and teenagers, says so right there in the docs... ;)
everyone using linux is the cure (maybe) to the issue at hand. Telling HIM to use linux does precisely 0% to cure anything since HE already knows about it
Ed, what you need is a baseball bat. A baseball bat doesn't require you to sign up for any service, doesn't spy on you, doesn't actively participates in stealing your identity, doesn't burn the planet, and it can smash that laptop to pieces in a second.
Nobody has not used a computer running linux at this point, but usually just as an appliance of some sort.
But as a general purpose desktop computer - I first started using Linux computers in about 1995 and I am using one this second - i agree that it's not for everybody.
LTSC isn't an option for consumers. I wish Valve'd make a consumer OS. The ux of the Steam Deck, even in desktop mode, is good. It would be nice to have that for regular computering around interwebs. Valve is also one of the few companies with scale & resources to build and support an OS.
An appropriate form of address would be Wizard, rather than not-“normal people“, if you please. Most folks, quite wisely I might add, do not wish to witness the fundamental magic that makes the world move.
I *have* a Linux computer (Ubuntu 24.whatever) that really wanted to like, but my Win 11 machine is so much easier to use. So I rarely boot the Linux box.
Vexing issue: I've never been able to successfully install the DisplayPort drivers. Spent at least 12 hours of my life trying, then gave up.
The Linux guys always crack me up. They always say the same regurgitated stuff that was on slashdot 20+years ago. It will never be the next big thing until there is a consumer friendly version.
This is what I'm talking about. There is always a caveat. If you can't get it preloaded and ready to do everything a Windows computer can do, Then it's not friendly to the average consumer.
I think we're splitting hairs here. Your average windows pc isn't friendly to the average person considering all the malware ive had to remove.
Linux sucks but for reasons involving band aids which are being pulled right now to modernize the desktop rendering backend, but Valve's doing great stuff
This this this thank you 🥰
I run Ubuntu on Linux on an ancient Dell desktop we bought for one of my kids when they were in HS - 18 years ago. It's my normal everyday computer. Originally it ran Windows NT. (Remember that?!) When that was discontinued, we loaded Linux & Ubuntu and never looked back.
Aside from the obvious like access to the internet with a screen big enough to do things like read comics, I use mine mainly for writing and art. I've designed patterns for applique flags, embroidery, and quilting as well as just basic digital art.
> They will all work just fine if you're not playing video games...
That's not even remotely true anymore. Not all games work perfectly, and some require Windows anti-cheat, but Valve put in incredible work for a decade to make this untrue. In many instances games even play better under Linux today
MS's hardware utilization is fucking antediluvian to the point that at this rate translation layered linux is probably going to be better for gaming by mid decade, and I am increasingly worried that it's going to come out that how it runs one or the other expensive components is losing lifespan.
One of the best things that happened to me is my computer as an undergrad was a NeXTstation, so I knew that you could have an unapologetic Unix with a good GUI. And its why even today so many Apple APIs are NX_
my 90-something-yo mother has one of those "computers for seniors" where the software is locked away from the user, and it runs Linux, which seems so weird to me.
Why? Linux is very flexible and aside from some specific Window apps like Adobe programs or a few games almost everything runs there and many things are even better suited to it. Plus, it's free, so cheaper for any manufacturer (which is why phones are running Linux, not Windows like in the past)
because while most of the software is locked away from the user, there have been a few times when I've need to dig into it, like when she upgraded the machine, and it's been very difficult to navigate.
I guess upgrading the machine unfortunately wasn't an intended use for that kind of modified system, which tend to ship with less scrutiny? What is it called?
Phones are running Linux because they needed to be low power which meant ARM processors and, among other reasons, Windows simply did not support ARM in 2007.
I haven't heard of these, but are you sure that these run Windows in the same way Android smartphones run Linux (in the sense that they forked the Linux codebase and it's 99% the same code as desktop Linux)?
I tried setting up Ubuntu on my wife's laptop. People who write apps that for Linux expect you to use the terminal to install them! The downloads page for windows shows a nice .exe gui, but Linux requires a terminal.
I ended up installing win pro and modifying the registry to not make a MS acct
Many of those providing support online still expect Linux users to be programmers etc., but you don't really need the console at all, package managers have existed for many years so you don't have to hunt for exes from various websites, and Ubuntu has had a nice appstore nowadays too!
I agree, for the most part! But there were some tools that weren't on the appstore that required the command line for install instead of downloaded an executable :(
What *can* be said is that there is light visible at the end of the tunnel. Thanks to Valve, certain band-aids have finally started to get ripped, but that means that it'll be good for an average user, not that photoshop will get a port.
That would require MS to do something Elon level stupid.
I'm playing my games on it, I had an AMD card before, which meant Valve wrote my GPU drivers and just about everything worked. 99% of the games on steam work.
Now I have an Nvidia card, and Nvidia is fixing their shit after being drunk for 15 years. But barring HDR & VRR, it works.
But there are little things, stability things, Ease of use, proprietary license issues, etc, that are getting in the way. But by and large, the *oh wait this is usable now* train is moving, ever so slowly.
My increasingly sincere belief is, given how terrible Window's use of system resources is by comparison, the charge for the Linux desktop won't be lead by productivity types but elite PCMR types sick of having MS's garbage scheduler and the like holding back their delidded watercooled OC monster.
To be fair, not mutually exclusive and it may be that type that devises that in a can fully normal person friendly distro if VALVe doesn't beat them to it.
I am also genuinely worried, looking at the state of how Windows used x64 CPUs until literally months ago, that it will come out that the way it uses hardware may be losing lifespan of one or the other vital components.
C’mon folks, the results are in, we know what kind of interface people respond to! All setup and config flows should come in the form of a TikTok feed from now on.
Linus Torvalds didn't make the mascot a penguin stuffed with fish for you to call them "sickly"! 😄 Also Red Hat Linux literally stopped development in 2004
Yeah a lot has changed, if you are used to Windows 7 or earlier some versions of Linux are arguably easier to use now, with none of the privacy or enforced update issues.
Ok at the risk of learning something about Linux, would you recommend Mint or PopOS if I hate Windows 11, play games, and don’t want to learn anything about Linux
You can check if your favorite games (that don't already have native support like many games nowadays do) are likely to run before installation on https://appdb.winehq.org
If you have any trouble, send me a message right away! :D
I agree! I’m on multiple social media platforms, have built computers in my past, can install
any program. Ppl shouldn’t pick ONE “safe platform.”. Texh companies will defeat them all, as they have done in the past. Regulation could help, but a GOP Congress will sell us all out.
Man, this not much has changed since 3 Dead Trolls and a Baggie wrote “Every OS Sucks”
‘I'd trade it in, yeah right... for what?
It's top of the line from the Compuhut.
The fridge, stove and toaster, never crash on me,
I should be able to get online, without a PHD.’
OUAT when I was young and cute, I was bouncing through the halls at work and saw two dudes,one of which was wearing a Linux shirt. I said "it's Tux!" and kept walking. I heard "See, SHE knew who it was" and the most disgusted sigh from his friend. As close to installing it as I ever got.
This requires more than one hit with a wrench. Many hits of the wrench and then learning an ancient incantation for generating silicon at a molecular level so you can get working audio and not mess up your dual boot.
The people who use Linux are the same people that buy a '73 Volkswagen Beetle as their daily driver: They spend all their time working on their car, so they can drive it to the grocery store on Sunday.
I get it. It takes a lot of work and does what you tell it to do. I want to skip the work part
i love how this thread has “stop telling me about linux that’s not the point” in it TWICE and i still see multiple people doing it, one guy has done it 3 times, etc.
This IS just twitter still, nobody can tell me otherwise LOL
sorry FOUR times in your replies, hahaha. “don’t do this please” DOES IT 4 TIMES is that antisocial twitter behaviour we’ve all come to know and hate haha
I have a Linux media server and have also encountered a corrupt bootloader! What are the odds? At least today you can boot Linux from USB. I don't know how people put up with it in the early days.
Ditto. I'm quite happy to use Linux for my servers but I absolutely refuse to use a Linux desktop. My "Linux Desktop" is Windows WSL2. Normal use I like my mac...
I finally got Ubuntu working on my old Mac. Sound and wifi eventually worked. Literally 1 min later it asks me if I want to upgrade to Ubuntu 24? Did that and now my sound and wifi don’t work again. D’oh!
25 yrs ago I co-taught a class for normies on how to surf the web. My co-instructor opened AOL, connected and loaded that hell portal. I then minimized the window and opened Netscape Navigator. My co-instructor was floored.
I've dual booted several laptops but on my most recent bought a System76 laptop with Linux preinstalled. Nice to open up a laptop and not have to immediately wipe the machine and hope that the hardware wasn't too new for the drivers to be caught up. Normal people don't want to compile a wifi driver.
Moved the grandparents onto Chromebooks. They do all the stuff they used to do, with orders of magnitude less virus infections. Now just factory restore when they manage to mess them up (and they have, amazingly). ChromeOS is really just a kind of Linux in drag.
I can’t put myself in the shoes of someone who would seriously suggest another person “just use Linux” as if that were a totally normal and reasonable thing to say. And I like Linux!
there's probably somewhere for people like me who "know how to use linux when we have to but prefer to avoid it on days when we don't want to suffer needlessly," but i think we fall somewhere outside the diagram
I made a post once complaining about windows and added "do not tell me to switch to Linux, I do not want Linux" and they *still did it*. It's pathological.
There was a jwz post way back about how pants the entire media experience on Linux was (summary: Linux media apps either had user interfaces that were different from popular Windows apps or worked well but never both — often neither) and the replies were full of “just switch to a different distro”.
I once said something to the effect of "installing Linux on a computer I use for work would not be a good idea," and the first reply was "you should install Linux." I don't think they even read past the first few words of my comment.
My whole issue was that I was sick of it asking me to install Windows 11. My problem was I liked my OS and I wanted to stick with it, and their solution was to change OS.
Mine was in the context of the Windows 10 extended security updates, because "stability" and "not having my workflow unnecessarily explode" is something I need my OS to have.
Linux, a family of OSes which are famous for "not having things unnecessarily explode."
I read a blog post once sarcastically criticizing Linux(topics like "doesn't restart enough" and "rebooting is too fast") and the comments were closed because of all the angry Linux users.
The LaTeX lumps are nearly as bad. No, I do not want to learn a whole coding language just so I can change the page numbers from Roman numerals to Arabic for this section of my thesis! ("Insert section break," change format, took 30 seconds. After 30 min wading through useless LaTeX preachers on SO)
I haven't encountered a LaTeX evangelist in the wild but I probably go to the wrong hangouts. I've been using it for 30+ years so it is often the best solution for me (Overleaf is my happy place) but I would never suggest it to someone who wasn't already a user.
There is, in fact, quite a lot of daylight between "I would like to do this one thing" and "I want to uproot my entire workflow & learn a whole new one," and some people never figure that out!
I bought a wee Linux netbook once and lost my enthusiasm for it when I could not for the life of me figure out how to install anything new to it, despite trying 3 different tutorials 😂
Fun fact: the fully guided but annoying and confusing setup flow that is making you want to rip your hair out was probably designed and implemented without a trace of irony by someone who thinks rolling your own Linux install & config is no big deal.
Those of use with a steam deck do! It's actually been a really good experience the thing just works and I can play my funny animal people cult game in my recliner.
We're lacking around 2 years worth of Nvidia driver updates before I could consider evangelizing linux proper, but it is entirely true that the degree to which somebody can stick with linux is entirely proportional to the degree in which they think MS should be consigned to the depths of hell.
listen I will push Bill Gates in to the gaping maw of the beast MYSELF if I have to but I will still never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER install fucking linux
As someone who’s dabbled with Linux for 20 years… it’s never been a smooth experience. Something will always break and you’ll spend days looking at old message boards trying to fix shit.
Those fucking linux nerds are insufferable. My entire career is about bending Linux to the will of humans and it’s the last operating system I’d use for myself or my family at home.
If I were to do one of these for “installing Linux for your mom” it’d be even more of a horror show.
Not only would it be a horror show, but you’d end up with unusable junk at the end (for most people). At least with windows it’ll be useful and functioning (albeit filled with shovelware and spam) and you have Dell or whoever to call and bitch at.
you did post bait for some of the most annoying Linux users though. pretty sure you would probably end up viewing it as a tragedy of stuff starting for individual freedom ending up running servers that are running evil companies now if you actually went through the history and that is pretty tragic.
The idea that a clean Linux install is the solution to difficult to use entry level laptops for Americans who just want to do thing like print recipes and browse Facebook is ridiculous.
an ipad will do email, social media, video calls, streaming, and online shopping. install scrivener or something if you really want to use it for writing. what else do people typically need a laptop for?
Yeah. Apple is still better at holding the line against enshittification. I have to remote in to a PC at work and I get pop-up ads for games. On a computer maintained at a corporation by a professional IT department. Apple bugs me but they don’t do *that* shit.
One of the few really happy tech moments in recent memory was getting a Steam Deck and how it let me feel like I bought tech that did what I bought it for instead of being an ad spyware delivery platform. It's running linux, but that doesn't matter, you wouldn't know it. I highly recommend the Deck.
Every so often I install it as a trial. And then within 20 minutes go back to Windows, because there's some things you just can't do without the Terminal, and I don't even know what to Google because everything is so different.
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However, I don't have the mental bandwidth to install it on my personal computer, and fight compatibility issues.
And, last time I looked, the OO word predecessor still didn't have a way to search for a new paragraph mark
Also how is program compatibility?
I’m not an IT expert. I used to pride myself in my tinkering skills but now I’m that guy who calls IT because their browser did something weird. 🤦🏻
They don't think about the steps of making a bootable USB to install linux from and setting the computer to boot from it. Joe Average isn't going to get that done, he's going to get Windows with the computer and use it until Microsoft says it's time to buy a new one.
‘But none of my extensive and important array of VBA scripts will work anymore. My job breaks.’
“You shouldn’t have written those scripts.”
Source: Am programmer. Am Linux user for 20+ years. Am not someone who evangelizes operating systems.
Did I despise iTunes' attempts to auto-organize my music library and its refusal to let me manage it manually? Yes.
Did I regret teaching my dad how to use Kazaa? Also yes.
What are you actually qualified to discuss techwise
(And it doesn't seem like Moody knows who Zitron is?? Pretty darn qualified, for one thing)
and all the business decisions that take these wonderful tools and turn them horrible in the name of profit and power.
Peppering your posts with I DON'T WANT A SOLUTION, I WANT TO COMPLAIN isn't helping.
https://xkcd.com/2501/
But they need to be able to walk into Best Buy and get a pre installed Linux laptop.
Lack of familiarity becomes a hurdle (I can use a Mac, but I dread it). Linux is a real challenge for newbies
So what am I missing?
But it's dead in the water for normal users if step 1 is make a boot drive.
Engineers don't care about selling some shitty service that exists to mine your search history.
brain. The engineer brain shouldn’t be used for social programs.
I went with Linux, but I have had enough experience with it that it was relatively smooth transition from Win 10.
I eventually started blocking people just out of principle. I figure it isn't good for me to watch this, and they most likely would keep doing it. I can't look any more.
Though, in my experience, the lightweight nature of ChromeOS has generally been abused to gut the specs and create a worse product
It feels much less work-y than I'd initially expected.
I did not recommend it to my dad. Likewise for homeassistant.
But any laptop I get will be a Mac. Don't wanna worry about proprietary driver issues.
Like I like computers, but 30-50 hours of using them in a week is plenty.
*everyone continues to discuss Linux in excruciatingly nit-picky detail*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
Kidding, kidding!
You'll never find a Linux advocate being outside.
But as a general purpose desktop computer - I first started using Linux computers in about 1995 and I am using one this second - i agree that it's not for everybody.
People complain so much about how new computer users are getting spawn camped and then refuse any alternative
Welcome to cyberpunk dystopia, this is peak enshittification and WILL not improve if people continue using it and MS retain its monopoly.
You just want stuff to work, and think thats just the computers are
You have no ideia about Linux, and just want a solution to your problem
Or, if you are not tied to any proprietary software:
Common Linux issues:
1 - Expect to be like Windows or a perfect experience
2 - Use a distro that isnt Linux Mint
3 - Not trying it out first (VM, dualboot)
Vexing issue: I've never been able to successfully install the DisplayPort drivers. Spent at least 12 hours of my life trying, then gave up.
I only used Ububtu because Mastodon said it's the best distro for Linux non-experts who don't have time/resources to become experts...
paleontologists have been up to some freaky shit lately
They will all work just fine if you're not playing video games...
Oh, and you can run them on a any computer that is over a couple years old, it'll save you money in hardware...
Linux sucks but for reasons involving band aids which are being pulled right now to modernize the desktop rendering backend, but Valve's doing great stuff
I run Ubuntu on Linux on an ancient Dell desktop we bought for one of my kids when they were in HS - 18 years ago. It's my normal everyday computer. Originally it ran Windows NT. (Remember that?!) When that was discontinued, we loaded Linux & Ubuntu and never looked back.
Granted, I failed to mention controller for CNC router or 3D printer, which can fall under hobby rather than work.
That's not even remotely true anymore. Not all games work perfectly, and some require Windows anti-cheat, but Valve put in incredible work for a decade to make this untrue. In many instances games even play better under Linux today
wikipedia: "All macOS releases are UNIX 03 certified.[7][8]"
huh! neat!
As for the userland, they used FreeBSD as a starting point...
Many other products do something like this.
My linux boxen are just servers now, hardly ever do more than ssh in to check things.
I am also resisting installing HomeBrew, if something I want needs that I put it on a linux box and use ssh or xquartz
Spent four summers in the early 2000s at the MIT Media Lab
I think it took 5 minutes to boot up.
There were also Windows Phone and Windows Mobile which were rather lighter weight and had just taken the Windows kernel and built on top of that.
I ended up installing win pro and modifying the registry to not make a MS acct
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account
That would require MS to do something Elon level stupid.
Now I have an Nvidia card, and Nvidia is fixing their shit after being drunk for 15 years. But barring HDR & VRR, it works.
Such a thing is not implausible at this rate!
If you a gaming os, bazzite is your deal
If you have any trouble, send me a message right away! :D
any program. Ppl shouldn’t pick ONE “safe platform.”. Texh companies will defeat them all, as they have done in the past. Regulation could help, but a GOP Congress will sell us all out.
‘I'd trade it in, yeah right... for what?
It's top of the line from the Compuhut.
The fridge, stove and toaster, never crash on me,
I should be able to get online, without a PHD.’
https://youtu.be/CPRvc2UMeMI?si=fw55pIUBFsEDfh9L
I get it. It takes a lot of work and does what you tell it to do. I want to skip the work part
This IS just twitter still, nobody can tell me otherwise LOL
A few months ago an attempted upgrade to Ubuntu 24 corrupted my bootloader! I don't think I could reproduce how I fixed it for a million dollars!
"I didn't know you could do that." she said.
Little has changed.
There is no one true Linux and if there was, I bet a good chunk of the security advantage of Linux would evaporate
someone's being told to install linux
insufferable evangelists for Linux” is a circle
Like saying Candyman three times but waiting with a giant net to catch the fucker.
Linux, a family of OSes which are famous for "not having things unnecessarily explode."
NEVER
If I were to do one of these for “installing Linux for your mom” it’d be even more of a horror show.
I dumped PCs like 12 years ago for Apple products and never looked back.
No I just want to vacuum