I am trying to be patient because I 100% get that people are terrified but I am really struggling with all this knee-jerk public defeatism from other liberals and leftists right now
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This admins brain beams whenever it sees yours absolutely pristinely gleaming. And I know, like the sun, -=you=- will never stop* rising(*technically, scientifically, not in our lifetimes as such). All power to your heart.
It just occurred to me that I didn’t know who I thought you were this whole time. I can’t even say dragon because when scroll & read, I thought your pic was a peacock 🦚 😂
hope is essential. sometimes i feel not hopeless but like the full weight of what my cold pragmatic analyst brain tells me is coming and it's overwhelming. but we must imagine worlds in which we thrive to keep going
look i am also VERY prone to exceedingly bleak feelings and sentiments
but i try to keep them to myself or to a small circle of friends because i do believe it is vital to eventual victory in long wars to try to keep each other’s spirits up
I needed to hear this. I think there's a real tension around being realistic about just how bad this is so you can work out what you are going to hope abd work for, and I nevertheless absolutely needed to hear this. Thank you.
I think it's fine to acknowledge that the current outlook is not optimal, but we're not dead yet and maybe this is just the ADHD kicking into high gear, but now is not the time for self-defeating alarmist panic.
Now is when we really need clear heads to assess what's going on and start making plans
My personal stance is one of an existential optimist. I see the data, I can see where things might be headed, I know that humans tend not to think strategically over the long term. But giving up on hope is a bridge too far, even with what I know.
One thing I've learned about small teams leadership, which is a big component of my job, is to never underestimate the impact that your projected attitude has on those around you and the chain reaction. You get to set the tone of your spaces by example. Which is to say I totally agree with you.
This is sort of an uncomfortably earnest and annoyingly business speak-y thing for me to say, but aiming to establish a "high functioning teams" culture of care, courtesy, and tenacity is applicable anywhere if you want it to be.
This got you followed. I’m in agreement. In my own experience I can’t find solutions if I let my head be loudly full of woe is me. I have to acknowledge that, but then pull myself enough together to hope incoming ideas might work or they won’t come to me.
I read a paper for my political violence class that analyzed interviews with Nazis, people who stood by while the holocaust played out, & people who actively helped holocaust victims.
The Nazis felt like they were the victims. The bystanders felt powerless. The rescuers felt enabled to act.
It is cathartic for some to vent, to commiserate. It also can help with the grieving process. It helps me to know others are feeling similarly, that I am not alone in this pain.
Personally, i would rather read about someone's true feelings than a candy-coated version of them, but that's just me.
Grief involves a lot of despair, anger, denial, and irrational behaviors, but sharing those feelings is supposed to be how we deal with it communally. Maybe social media isn't the best place for that, but many also don't have another community to turn to.
At the same time, maybe they don’t want to feel upbeat with you. Just a thought.
As for why people are defeatist, it’s because they know the reality. All the good feeling and upbeat thoughts will do nothing. There is nothing stopping them, not even Congress or SCOTUS.
It’s also their messaging. If people could see that they at least understand basic economics or foreign policy, then they might be more positive that common sense will prevail.
But there’s nothing. They still think “China” will pay the tariffs. Nothing is based in reality.
maybe they’re not trying to force despondency on others; maybe they are expressing a valid response to the endless, repeating trauma that the magaverse inflicts on us and they (me) are looking for solidarity.
Matt Gaetz down, Boris Epshteyn caught soliciting bribes, and we haven't hit Thanksgiving yet. They are not a well oiled machine. Giving us is just so counterproductive in the face of their vulnerabilities.
Exactly, and the more attention and pressure that is applied to them, the more they will crack under it. Don’t get me wrong, there are some professional operators behind the scenes, but by and large these are not serious people.
Also, there is more movement in the war against Russia and a possible ceasefire in Israel--so Russia/BRICs have less of a puppet in the WH in Trump when Trump starts in Jan? maybe? cross fingers? I actually have more hope today than I did on Nov 6 but keep wondering if I'm insane for feeling it
Possible ceasefire? Israel has offered to do a ceasefire multiple times, only to be rebuked time and time again. We can dream, but it will never happen.
Eh, that possible ceasefire is with Lebanon... let's not pretend the war in Gaza is going to stop before the ethnic cleansing and annexation of Gaza and the West Bank are complete, barring some sort of extreme intervention.
At the very least I want everyone champing at the bit to get into this administration to have their nasty skeletons dragged out of the closet and exposed to the entire country.
one can also be alternatively down/doomer, panicked, angry, or just disassociative and not wanting to deal. we contain multitudes, and claiming you are supposed to feel only one certain way is dumb.
but I do think it’s wrong to actively attempt to make others feel despondent by coming into their mentions to tell them they’re doomed, which I’m seeing a lot of lately.
Is it fair to "come into your mentions" to say I have community members who have been assaulted already since the election, and yt moderate liberalism them to "chin up" is insulting af?
Have an editorial eye towards yourself. What do you want to be the end goal of your posting or reposting?
"Being informed" is not an end goal. The end goal is someone taking action (telling something to someone else, buying something, choosing to hide or disassociate, making a plan to act.)
idk how folks are reacting to a second time that we already know is going to be worse than the first and are spending their energy just getting people freaked out and burned out. like, we know it’s gunna be super bad. what are we doing about it? nothing? cmon. focus up.
I'm kind of resenting people trauma dumping about the election, like A) the time for that was eight years ago with the rest of us; and B) we knew Trump was electable and should have emotionally prepared ourselves for this possibility. There was no excuse to be blindsided a second time.
I think a lot were blindsided by how America re-elected such an obviously corrupt criminal. 2016 was a body blow, but we hadn't yet seen how completely terrible he was..then Jan 6. The fact that so many people were just like "yeah, but he's funny" is just...literally sickening. I get it.
Just got a normal friend to get on board with donating items to our region's largest mutual aid fair. I think I did it by acting normal for once in a human conversation offline.
go doomspiral in a diary so there’s space for us to find each other and figure out next steps/what needs our help or what we need - support groups, mutual aid, community defense, legal name clinics, fundraisers… lots to do!
I think the problem is that so many of us have led such comfortable lives that we tend to believe the institutions will protect us, and they've failed--as they usually do. WE protect us. But that's really disconcerting if your whole concept of safety is bound up in those concepts (mine is)
When I was first elected, I had a long list of positive things I wanted to accomplish. And I've done some of those things. But now I'm turning to defending the gains we've made. Minimizing the harm is going to have to be win enough for the coming interval, I'm afraid.
Continuing to live, to love, and to do what we can for those we can is the strongest defiance. Living is winning, and we know they'll eat their own if they can't devour us.
Giving in means you've let them conquer your spirit, which they want even more than conquering our bodies and lives.
Besides, if it's so bleak, why not go one more day? Try to help one more person? What's the cost of rolling the dice one more time, if you already feel consigned to your fate?
I don't disagree with the core of what you're saying, that it's important not to discourage people and cause them to check out.
But this also needs to be a moment of reflection where a certain segment of Democrats should be reevaluating the "we know best" mindset of the last 30 years.
I think it’s all about perspective. We all have a different perspective of life. What’s important is to value how another human perceives their perspective and allow them the freedom to have that view with out judgement. We may not agree but we don’t need to judge either.
The severity of the backlash to the Bernie movement, the lack of concern for the loss of support among Latino and black voters (mainly men), and most recently, the lack of concern the party refused to hold a real primary were all signs the party was in major trouble.
From an indigenous pal the other day, on the same theme (paraphrase): “We’ve been dealing with this stuff for 400 years and you’re all pissy after two weeks! STFU and get busy! And if can’t get it up to do something, at least stop with the damn whining!”
The way I look at it, people look for different things from social media. For some, it's rallying the troops; for others, it's being down, expressing that sentiment and feeling seen. I value that if it's genuine, if it helps people cope.
It's not about being cheery, of course. It's about being human/humane, courageous & generous. Bill Stringfellow wasn't a very cheery guy, but he has a bunch to say to us (a thread from a month ago):
Long before he entered politics, Trump the “businessman” literally said he believes that when people become depressed, when they give up, it creates opportunity for him to win. Like a true authoritarian, he wants people to surrendering.
I have switched off a bunch of stuff emotionally and started compartmentalizing. Spite got me through decades of depression. If need be it will get me through a second Trump term.
(Also consuming an unholy amount of jokes and dog pictures.)
Currently keeping my spirits up by watching the History of Comedy documentary and debating with the husband as to whether or not George Carlin could be considered high-brow comedy...
I feel like after that election there was a grace period in which people could in all decency go nuts venting their rage and grief in whatever form that took.
We're coming up on four weeks since the election. If you're still venting trauma, you're getting a mute or a block.
I had to unfollow a couple of people just cause they were at "by this time next year the U.S. will be an irradiated hellscape ruled by roving bands of warlords while Trump sits in the White House ruling over the ashes of D.C." levels...just...whoa...dial it back and bit.
When you see doomers remind them Indivisible helped save ACA when Republicans held all 3 houses and how the ACLU won their lawsuit against 45 on family separation. Fund them-if able. Remind them states have power & to write their governors and mayors to prepare to use that power to defend democracy.
For me, the issue is where to focus. It might seem defeatist to some, but I’m clearly seeing that efforts to work through the Democratic Party are wasted. They led us here and are handing us over. IMO, all efforts should be focused on building something new. A tall order.
We need to remember the Swiss cheese defense! Yes, lots of things are fucked, and there are no magic wands. But if everyone does everything we can, even though our individual actions won't change anything on their own, our combined actions might!
But as a pre-Jan 20 strategy, 10s of millions in the streets demanding Biden take this national emergency seriously and stop Trumpofascism before it happens seems better. He has the magic wand...
For some reason, I am reminded of a quote by Schopenhauer: Truth is no harlot who throws her arms around him who desires her. Rather, she is so coy a beauty, that the man who sacrifices everything to her is still not assured of her favors.
I think his point might have landed a bit better if he could have found a more universal yearning not limited to era or gender; limitation of metaphor acknowledged, I still think the quote resonates. “Do good because of the hope progeny will benefit even if you won’t.”
💜 Yeah. And sometimes you don't even have to wait for progeny. We never know when something that seems inconsequential to us will be just the thing that someone somewhere needed at that moment.
Passive resistance is a real force. Sometimes all it takes to gum up the works is not to point out when the boss or co-workers are making a mistake. Everybody can play this game.
My less kind take about this is that people doing this have never deeply looked into the issues with existing systems and the impacts of that for people other than themselves.
My kinder take is that there’s probably people who have worked really hard for too long and lost hope.
It’s hard not to succumb to doomerism when we don’t have any realistic idea how bad it’s going to be; the spectrum is too wide to know what is meaningful preparation and what’s extreme or wasteful. It’s overwhelming. Which is what they want. Defiance of that is the only thing keeping me engaged.
hang in there, there's fighters working in our midst. You may not see them at the moment, but they are there. Right now, we can get in touch with our local Democratic office & ask what we can do to help. 🌊💙
It's not defeatism to be realistic. No, we don't give up and we keep on fighting the good fight. But it doesn't help to ignore the fact that Trump has always operated as if the law doesn't apply to him and history has proven him right on that, to this country's everlasting shame.
Some of us may just be going through a process that looks like sitting with grief, wallowing in it a little, and writing lots of mediocre poetry before we’re ready to get back out there. We’re just strengthening our reserves.
We aren’t defeated. Think about the farmworkers union think about the slaves that fought for their freedom think about women who fought for their rights it didn’t happen overnight or in four years better yet even in a decade.
This is a minor setback
Same. Liberals without teeth. But I'm itching for a fight with these clowns. The morons seldom win. But here we are. Bluesky made everything nice. Fuck nice. We need to stand. Act. And cause as much chaos as possible to these diseased vermin. Get off your ass and fight. Play nice? Fuck no.
I have compassion for the Left. Liberals pilfer their beliefs when politically amenable and abandon the causes at the slightest inconvenience. I’ve more ire for liberals—perpetually rolling over to show their fluffy bellies in submission of norms to support a democracy that no longer exists.
We're not defeatist, we just don't want advice from party leaders that somehow managed to outraise a rich candidate and still lose. They countered the issues pushing voters to the right - immigration and inflation - by saying, i effect, these weren't real problems. We need new thinking...
Isolated for a few days, but now I will be a thorn in their side, a person who calls out bigots; I resolve to be more Queer, vote with my dollars, LISTEN TO & AMPLIFY marginalized voices, & when Black women speak, fucking HEAR THEM bc they've been fighting the good fight for much longer than I. LFG
It became trendy to feign cynicism to look cool in left-wing spaces. These folks never quite understood or believed what they were saying, though. So now they're all freaked out about things they pretended to know while those of us who took it seriously are relieved it's not as bad as we expected.
Some folks were just parroting "everything sucks, doom!" without understanding it, and now that a bad thing has happened, they're parroting harder. If they'd taken it seriously, they'd have researched fascist takeovers more, and be _relieved_ right now that Trump's botching his attempt.
Many those of us who were really scared and made plans for how to survive or escape are feeling relieved right now because he didn't achieve the power he needed to do those things.
The hashtag resistance crew apparently never really believed he was a fascist before now and didn't do the research.
Yeah especially the "a lot of people DIDN'T survive last time" shit. I am well aware, I also lost people. But if I give up all hope I might as well pull the plug now. I have to believe things can get better.
And personally, working an unpredictably stressful job, I’m inclined to suggest that folks just watch & wait, alertly attentive to what happens (not just what MIGHT happen).
But I’m aware that this isn’t very helpful to people who need to feel through their anxiety and find their own ways to cope.
I hear you I've been working with my Mom to save the energy for when he actually starts doing the thing not says he'll do the thing. And we'll fight and don't know he'll get what he wants.
I get you, but yesterday was a massive (predictable and understandable) low point for people who truly believed in the primacy of the rule of law in the United States. I don't blame Jack Smith. But what now?
Thanks. Saved that pic 🙂. I have heard this paradox mentioned a few times on stoic podcast(RyanH’s) but this pic is a great reminder. I think even Viktor Frankl has noted something similar from his observations at the concentration camp(a book I need to get!.)
The latest was Whoppi Goldberg on Monday's The View, who surrendered to Trump. She said she isn't going to worry about what Trump will do until she sees what he does first. After spending years talking about how dangerous Trump was to the audience of The View.
also, it’s going to be 4 years of outrage posting because people will need to vent (maybe a lifetime, of outrage depending how long this regime lasts).
even then we’ll have to worry when the venting stops, as that means the populace is to scared to speak out.
Today I went for my first walk since I got sidelined in June with bad health setbacks. I walked for 30 minutes, and tomorrow I’m doing it again. I’m hella pissed at everything and everyone rn, but I need to channel it into being productive. I’m going to need to be in good shape for the 💩 show comin.
I have tried to shift my mindset to: the scope of the supervillain shit they want to do is SO VAST and their access to competence is so low they cannot possibly accomplish it all. Which isn't to say many bad things won't happen to many people, but this particular horrorshow isn't totally feasible.
I agree 100%. They are so incompetent, look at the people he is appointing. It's laughable.
For once in my life, bureaucratic red-tape could be the bandaid that holds democracy together. I hope they face a mountain of obstacles and lawsuits and judges that knock them down.
Yeah, I'm trying to thread the needle for myself between acknowledging that many vulnerable people can and will be harmed here, there's important work to do and focus is needed, and yet the actual worst case scenarios I'm imagining are still fairly implausible and panic is counterproductive.
True, but it is far easier to break things than to build them, and you don't need any experience to burn something to the ground if no one has legal recourse to stop you.
I have been pondering what things might look like when Orange Face, say, fires all the generals and puts in his lackeys..
This is the hope I’m hanging onto. Our government is so complex and has so many moving parts - look at how difficult it’s been to make any changes historically. And they are so maliciously incompetent and self-serving it’s hard to see how they can accomplish all they want. They’ll eat each other up
Exactly. Trump was largely ineffective his first term except for screwing up the economy which Biden had to fix.
My concern is his new team, they are off the charts crazy, and TFG knows now how to maneuver through the government based on his experience last time. Scary and sickening times. It sucks
That's the thing I keep coming back to--if you want to mass deportations, you still need money for gas and ammo and everything else that entails, and getting reimbursement from the federal government is already a pretty convoluted process.
How are they going to coordinate payment of that if they've fired most of the competent employees and replaced them with untrained, inexperienced loyalists?
They don’t need to be competent, Trump will be calling the shots. All they have to do is say “yes sir” and defend the position which they have practice at.
I’m hoping same. This absolute clown show will def make lots of terrible decisions and cause harm but they are so manifestly unsuited for their jobs that they may cause less damage than worst case scenarios predict.
📌 pinning this because I totally agree and I know I'm going to need a reminder than the clown car of idiots have more in common with Bond villains monologuing all their evil plans than Thanos (who was also an idiot tbh lol)
Mussolini was completely fucking incompetent.
But he opened the door for Hitler, Franco. That has always been my fear about Trump. I've been saying it for almost a decade now. He isn't Hitler. He is just normalizing the goose-step towards a Fascist regime.
The low access to competence is reinforced from both directions. Not only do most people who value competence not want to work in Trumpworld, but anything more than the thinnest patina of competence has a negative correlation with loyalty in Trump’s view, so he doesn’t want them either.
It isn't "knee-jerk public defeatism." It's a genuine expression of longing for leaders to organize and provide a way for people to respond productively
The Left & Center-Left have been left rudderless while The Right has been organized for this moment for years. People feel helpless...and they are
Defiance is 100% what Republicans want out of this. Republicans have nothing but a collection of fast failures and from the hip snipers. A big distraction that they can scapegoat everything on is exactly the fight they need to escape their responsibilities
I felt sad and defeated for about a week. I got mad. 😡 And I am staying mad! Fuel for the fight! I feel lucky to be a native Californian although Gavin is not perfect, he stands up for us. Most of the time.
Agree! And making the state workers go back to work in town because the mayors screamed, “No workers means no business and we need state workers to buy lunch!” All the CO2 and cars on road make it worse! Which is it, Gavin? Fight climate change?!
"The one thing Gavin Newsom hates more than homeless people is Donald Trump" is the way I've heard it put. And hey. Sometimes that is the bastard you have to aim at the other, bigger bastard.
And ladies and gentlemen- welcome to the Democrat party, where we take every opportunity to 💩 talk leaders.
If the sun is out, a Democrat is going to be bad talking one of the few elected representatives we have. Please continue, it was so helpful the last four years.
Those are facts, not shit talking. And critical thinking skills are mandatory. I will hold my governor accountable for talking out of two sides of his face.
I keep thinking about this. Ca has one of the world's largest economies. Those that live here need to remind our reps of what is important to us - often.
I do think that a lot of people are having a tough time moving from the utter shock of "OMG, he got how many votes?" to "OK, fuck this noise. No one is coming to save us, we have to do it!"
I wonder if it’s some kind of respectability optics hand washing thing? Like “I didn’t bow out and wash my hands of everything, the situation was just so dire I was forced to.” Except the situation hasn’t even really started yet so… handwashing. And they want others to abdicate too for validation?
Maybe this is a moment when more liberals start to recognize anger as a legitimate force of motivation, and when more leftists appreciate the limits of wallowing in miserablism re: what’s possible.
Same. Personally, I don't think most of what Trump claimed that he was going to do is going to happen. He only wanted back in the White House for the sake of his ego, to save himself from all these prosecutions, and to enrich himself one last time.
Are you a white, straight, cisgender person? If so, you probably don't understand the fear people are going through right now with potentially losing access to much needed healthcare.
A bit of accidental food poisoning could literally end him, it’s not like he’s going to be king for decades and literally no one waiting in line in that party has the juice
There is nobody in the entire Republican Party with the charisma to pull the numbers of least common denominator voters who only voted for Trump and nobody else. In places like Michigan or North Carolina, it was hundreds of thousands of these voters.
It’s a difficult balance for me right now to try not to fall into the trap of thinking I can logic it out, or the trap of being absolutely inconsolable.
I'm working on improving my physical and mental fitness, listening to more music, and cooking more from scratch. This spring I'll be gardening. The more self sufficient we are, the better we'll be able to help others get through this, too.
I am singing really loudly and poking my fingers in my ears anytime anyone mentions anything about it, if that helps you plan. I feel it’s going well so far.
It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Libs need to look in the mirror. Do they see someone scared and timid. Or do they see someone brave willing to push back hard. I know what I see.
Also, they should keep this cheery thought in mind: if they're white, they're going to be the last ones carted off. They'll enjoy a much longer period of relatively normal life beforehand, & might even skirt the really bad stuff.
There is a danger in this as well, though. An implied silencing of the distressed perhaps. I wonder if a better question might be to consider how we respond to feelings of despair or helplessness in ourselves and others. True power comes from hearing such feelings and responding with compassion.
I was in that for around a week or so. I easily fall in to depression, but really, I have a life to live, and I will work to make it less shitty for myself and others.
It’s unproductive and our mood matters. Hope will lead to action and make things better and/or less bad. Doom leads to inaction and maximum permanent pain.
I even look at it and reminds me of a line in two of Cory Doctorow's books
'This is not a fight to win, this is a fight to fight'
The way I read it and internalise it is that no matter what the odds are you have to keep fighting. Admit that is difficult if you want but keep fighting
First, people have survived much worse. Second, what ever horrible decisions are being made will get exposed and rejected. Third, don’t let what’s happened influence you to treat anybody with anything but grace.
Some on the left still think of the election as a sports match that their team lost. They wore the merch and cheered, and now that the game is over there’s nothing left to do but wish it had gone differently. They didn’t see it as a struggle to address real issues that didn’t go away after Nov 5.
Same, and it's really embarrassing when you know how hard and long people around the world (including here in the US) have fought for their freedoms and their rights, only to see a bunch of privileged Americans throw in the towel as soon as things got hard for us.
My DSA chapter's last general meeting had maybe two hundred people in it. We had a new member orientation with 80 people on the zoom call. We had victories in local elections! Not everyone is defeated, many are working hard to change the world and keep our neighbors safe. We can win!
Yup. Some folks have never mastered the concept of "inside your skull" thoughts and is really showing. This kind of stuff goes in a journal, not social media!
Agreed. But hey, I was politically active in the Reagan years, so...deep sigh. And I somewhat forecast it in my Netwalk Sequence cyberpunk series which...makes me uncomfortable.
My mom said to me earlier “we’re doomed.” Really upset me tbh. Like I’m the one with 50 years left to live. I’m not just going to “give up on” my own freedom for my entire adult life.
Mom's scared and didn't express it in the most helpful way and your anger is healthy. We're going to fight and we'll win. Let mom know that because of people like you we're NOT doomed and there is a place for her in the fight. She'll appreciate it. GL.
I'm not defeated. I'm waiting for them to foul up spectacularly and cause their followers to turn on them. Meanwhile, I'm shopping locally at mom/pop stores and cooperatives. Supporting my LGBTQ artist friends by buying their art. Letting other libs know they aren't alone.
Turn that grief into anger and get to work. We are most effective at the local level. Volunteer, find an organization to work with, network, run for office. Now is the time to fight back.
Well, it's truely understandable.
We are like the orchestra playing while the Titanic was sinking.
It's one blow after the next.
Example:
Charges dropped by Jack Smith because that lawless criminal was re-elected.
Example: Retribution from Trump against good people.
EXAMPLE: PROJECT 2025
I had been in a deep depression ever since the election, but finding Bluesky is helping me pull out of it. It’s demoralizing to watch people you thought were good and decent selling out every principle you hold dear. I think Bluesky will play a huge role in rebuilding our democracy.
People just don’t know what to do. I don’t think this is representative of shit. Once he’s in office there’s gonna be a chorus of people letting everyone know exactly what Trump did and is doing to harm them. Even if congress is chickenshit. No one will be able to spit out a coherent tariff defense.
Anyone who’s read project 2025 & calls for baking bread & chill for a nerve tonic hasn’t read project 2025. Rational people who have read it will need; wine making, bread baking, meditation, humor, volunteering, exercise, art therapy, passports, community organizing, seed saving, revolution & chill
I feel a kind of optimism, like we can change a lot in the next few years just as long as we are also willing to beef up our support for already marginalized communities . So much of the system is broken or inadequate it needs something new. We need to start actually building a real third party now.
That's pretty much how I feel, too. I've always known that things would need to get worse before they get better, but I had hoped to have a little more time to organize (I'm struggling with my health). Now that more people are losing their comfort, things can move very quickly.
Yes. Time to get to work. We have rights to protect and elections to win! I think we should start by donating to the ACLU and /or the Democratic Party. Also find your Democratic County Committee and go to their meetings. Get involved so we can take our country back!
.. need to drop the “woke”b/s and read up on LBJ..he was a big prick ( literally) and the strongest Dem we’ve had since FDR..”when they go low we need to go lower..” I think that’s a paraphrase from a former First Lady..
be aware that while there are definitely real people feeling these real feelings, out enemies have been more than willing to use bots to control the narrative and they would love us to despair and give up.
Maybe not. But the narrative that has left them defeated has been propped up on the back of fake engagement, infiltration of our communities by bad actors, and targetted misinformation. Causing chaos is far easier than governing
I'm poor and disabled. I'm one of the first on the chopping block when the shit goes down. (Social safety nets keep me alive.) I can't PHYSICALLY do anything to help, so, respectfully, this kind of "stop being pessimistic" stuff feels ableist and dehumanizing. I'm not allowed to express my fear?
I feel like if people see me, people like me, expressing that they actually feel threatened, they may also feel motivated to do what they can. But right now it's catharsis and hoping others help, because that's all there is.
I can't speak for Faine, but how I feel is that it's legit to be afraid and express that. 🫂 But maybe that's different from defeatism? The stuff that bothers me is posts that seem to actively WANT *everyone* to be as freaked out as possible at all times. Responding to even good news with "we're 1/
fucked, no one is even trying to help" or going around trying to cut people's sources of emotional support out from under them. Zooming in on the worst things and pooh-poohing anything hopeful.
Especially from big accounts with influence.
I would rather folks just be gentle w/ each other, which 2/
sometimes (imo) means listening to fears & sharing one's own and sometimes means words of comfort, or cat pics, or sharing good news, and sometimes means practical help.
I don't think it means amplifying each other's despair, is all. Things are hard enough without getting each other spiralling. 3/3
There are myriad ways to build power for progressives in this moment and the left is actually far stronger than it looks. The best cure for defeatism is to get up and do something
I have hope. I've been ignoring the public defeatism. As soon as someone starts talking like that, it's like my brain switches channels from blah blah, no hope, to white noise and hope.
People who belong to the Cheeto-Lini cult want us to feel defeated and I'm not giving them the pleasure.
This is much worse for some people than others. I do not feel safe staying in this country for the next 4 years, and I don't think all of my friends will survive to see the end of it.
Yeah, I’m trans and so is my partner. I am not saying this as someone with zero skin in the game here. And I am also not saying that everyone should feel obliged to stay here.
I did my grieving the week of. Now it’s time to take our turn and plan for what the new political environment is going to be. Do the organizing that we believe is necessary, whether that’s political or mutual aid or a little of both.
"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance." FDR
I'm a Brit, but we've been where you are many times, with the dreadful Thatcher, Johnson & other Conservative wins. What seems like defeatism is just shock, grief etc. Everyone will take a different amount of time to recover & bounce back, but in time they will. I've seen it here over & over.
Those of us in the know can simultaneously acknowledge that this is gonna be rough but that it also won’t be permanent. For me, figuring out how to sabotage the incoming administration gets me up in the morning. Can’t find much will to fight when all you seek is darkness.
I find that thinking about the future is very hard for me. I can take this one day at a time for now, so that’s what I’m doing (and each day can include calls to members of Congress, etc). I appreciate the strategizing from you and others!
My sister and I set out to get ourselves fired from a babysitter we didn't like around the same age, and this makes me smile. May you also have the overall energy levels of a child in your quest, funny stranger.
Yeah, it took sec to process it all but I’m in a healthier headspace:
The only way out is through, so focus on solutions. Don’t waste time on “why.” They’re shitty people, that’s why. You can’t rationalize the irrational. Accept it for what it is, but don’t accept that it has to be this way.
I think that’s a great and healthy place to get to. I was really down and depressed after the election. Am I still worried? Absolutely. And we have our go bags ready. At the same time, Trump is quite incompetent and I feel more energized to resist and organize than even the first time around.
And we will all have days when we give into despair, but we have to show ourselves grace to have a shitty day. Bouncing back is often a matter of giving ourselves permission to be silly and find joy—even in difficult times. Spreading joy is pretty damned helpful too!
I have purchased numerous political books so my grandchildren, greats and on down the line, will know exactly what happened. It’ll be whitewashed in history books because it’s so damn embarrassing.
I’m refusing to contribute to the economy in any meaningful way between 1/20/25 and the midterms. I pre-purchased essentials, including car parts, 🧻, cat sand, laundry sheets, dental work, glasses, etc. Readying to hunker down.
Liberal Legal Group Positions Itself as a Top Trump Administration Foe
Democracy Forward says it has prepared a raft of potential legal challenges to Trump’s agenda with a coalition of over 280 advocacy groups called Project 2025 to fight Trump’s power grabs.
I'm finding that sometimes people need to sit in that hopelessness and move through it, seeing it as a necessary stage that I don't need to move them through helps me be there when they emerge.
I feel like a lack of mainstream mourning rituals is part of this arrested despair though, people don't always have examples of what moving through this defeat looks like.
While I agree with you, I was born and raised in a fascist country, Drumph etal are currently well on track and part of what they do is that most people won’t even know what’s going on, that’s how it works, how much resistance do you see in Russia?
I think it's called 'grief'- went through some today. Much better frame of mind. As long as i see it as a low point, then, once i stand up again, i can figure ways to move on. I'm grateful for Biden's push to get lifetime federal judges into place. It's a step in a good direction.
Not for nothing but as a 60 year old Black, non-gender conforming AFAB, who has historically been underemployed or unemployed during GOP admins and needing another job or be homeless, I think I have the right to feel hopeless. Not everyone has something to be hopeful about.
I think people need at outlet to vent and it feels good to be understood. I don’t think most people here are defeatist. They’re just sounding off loud enough for the people in the back to hear. Hang in there.
When there are no tools at hand to fight, & half the country supports TFG: not optimistic.
And yes, half. 3rd party & non-voters count as votes forTFG or acceptance of his goals.
We can only wait & react, & hope someone clones a Sanders or Sheldon Whitehouse out in the public to show attack points.
I felt that way for a day and a half then I got angry and motivated. I’ve joined @workingfamilies.org and am contributing monthly to them and @sunrisemvmt.bsky.social. I’m buying from small businesses and using my library more after canceling my Bezos subscriptions. I’m writing to my reps more.
I understand where they are coming from. I felt the same way I would feel if I learned the world was ending in two months.
What I didn't do was throw up my hands and scream "We're doomed!" from the rooftops.
I’d like to think some things are going to get better. Some things will get worse. If we just do what we can as it comes then we’re never going to be “defeated”.
I wish fighting fascism was a simple thing but it just isn’t. We’re going to be dealing with these morons all our lives.
One challenge is that given how close the US Presidential election appeared to be until the results came in, liberals now have lost faith even in any hope that is offered. It seems that in contemporary Western society the hopeful can no longer be trusted to be close to the truth.
ngl idk how to be optimistic rn. the only optimism i'm seeing is from people who are naively optimistic and treating the incoming admin as a normal one. "oh, this cabinet pick isn't as bad as the other ones" - yeah, so what? they will do what trump wants or he will fire them. that's just how it goes
I hear you. We cannot cede our collective power. Resistance to this nonsense requires hope. And I’ve got it. Maybe not every minute of every day but I’ve got it.
I presented a seminar to progressive political activists on this in 2004. The default for communities under attack is to give up, to think/argue about what to do, to postpone decisions. My takeaway: the top strategy for dealing with defeatists is not to argue, but start. Action breeds action. Begin.
I think folks are moving through stages of grief. But we can't wallow and be defeatist. That's accepting that the implementation of his nonsense is inevitable, and it must not be. No one's coming to save us. We need to organize ourselves.
As well as a complete failure of leadership from Democratic leaders and representatives who are just screaming "it's going to be bad!!" but with no action next steps. There's always ways to fight. It's part of the same defeatist mentality they've been in since 2016.
Everyone is at different stages right now emotionally, especially going into the holidays. If you're able to speak with a therapist it might be helpful. While your friends may not be in same place you are right now.
Others are, immigrant and refugee legal centers near you may need help. Contact groups and non-profits who have already started the good fight. Be the change you want to see.
Comments
but i try to keep them to myself or to a small circle of friends because i do believe it is vital to eventual victory in long wars to try to keep each other’s spirits up
Now is when we really need clear heads to assess what's going on and start making plans
America voted for it, and we're going to get it.
We have to focus on next steps because we will survive. 2026 elections aren't so far away.
And I personally never feel better after expressing negativity, it’s not even satisfying
“France is following us to Revolution,
“There is no more status quo,
“But the sun comes up,
“And the earth still spins…”
The Nazis felt like they were the victims. The bystanders felt powerless. The rescuers felt enabled to act.
But the same principles apply & it’s definitely—at a minimum—going to be really stupid and Vogonic.
Believe that you can help, identify where you can help, *& act.*
Personally, i would rather read about someone's true feelings than a candy-coated version of them, but that's just me.
As for why people are defeatist, it’s because they know the reality. All the good feeling and upbeat thoughts will do nothing. There is nothing stopping them, not even Congress or SCOTUS.
But there’s nothing. They still think “China” will pay the tariffs. Nothing is based in reality.
but I do think it’s wrong to actively attempt to make others feel despondent by coming into their mentions to tell them they’re doomed, which I’m seeing a lot of lately.
Every time I get defeatist, someone comes into the library with a spark of hope, or a joke, or a need and I am ready to get up and fight again.
I'm just going to get good weirder over the next several years - I'm in my no fucks given era.
"Being informed" is not an end goal. The end goal is someone taking action (telling something to someone else, buying something, choosing to hide or disassociate, making a plan to act.)
https://bsky.app/profile/semsu.bsky.social/post/3lbu4uwdzls2i
Fight on - as the alternative is groveling.
... just ..can't find a win to focus hope on.
Besides, if it's so bleak, why not go one more day? Try to help one more person? What's the cost of rolling the dice one more time, if you already feel consigned to your fate?
Each day, for one more day, we march alongside each other.
Fearful? Yes. Uncertain, to be sure.
But every day will bring the dawn of another,
and one day, we will be somewhere other.
But this also needs to be a moment of reflection where a certain segment of Democrats should be reevaluating the "we know best" mindset of the last 30 years.
There is a significant segment of Democrats who were sure Biden, not Bernie, was the future of the Democratic party.
Yet it must be clear now that his victory was only a rejection of the pandemic under Trump and not a cry for more neoliberalism.
Democrats must think this over.
https://bsky.app/profile/drewkadel.bsky.social/post/3l7bgo5k5e424
I have switched off a bunch of stuff emotionally and started compartmentalizing. Spite got me through decades of depression. If need be it will get me through a second Trump term.
(Also consuming an unholy amount of jokes and dog pictures.)
We're coming up on four weeks since the election. If you're still venting trauma, you're getting a mute or a block.
@indivisibleguide.bsky.social
Have had to tell my friends to get their news from local news outlets about those things instead.
But as a pre-Jan 20 strategy, 10s of millions in the streets demanding Biden take this national emergency seriously and stop Trumpofascism before it happens seems better. He has the magic wand...
https://bsky.app/profile/nmwilkinson.bsky.social/post/3laz6vnngg22l
https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf
My kinder take is that there’s probably people who have worked really hard for too long and lost hope.
For me it's mostly exasperation at everyone who was too stupid or bigoted who tried to argue that "well both sides suck actually who even cares"
Basically our job is to convince the enabler to pack a bag, get the kids from school, and stay at their sister’s for a while.
This is a minor setback
The hashtag resistance crew apparently never really believed he was a fascist before now and didn't do the research.
Including depression and paranoia, unfortunately for us.
For better or worse (likely both), this will probably clear up as soon as Trump is in office and takes any action that can be responded to.
We all expect a bunch of bad things to happen. We cannot know what, when, how bad they are, or for whom. A we can do is guess in horror.
But I’m aware that this isn’t very helpful to people who need to feel through their anxiety and find their own ways to cope.
People are scared.
That’s all valid.
It doesn’t mean that they don’t have any fight in them.
It just means that they need a minute to get ready for what is about to come.
have some courage, people
https://modelthinkers.com/storage/app/public/model_image/t4CJAemX7V7mvkP8biuMJ5k5IAHg1LBn9S6NJgCC.png
Which is soo ironic given who/what he was!
Yup, him just went tharn for all that dint he!
https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/Stockdale-Concept.html
if people continue to bitch and moan in 6 mos without taking any actionable steps, then frustration is justified.
even then we’ll have to worry when the venting stops, as that means the populace is to scared to speak out.
For once in my life, bureaucratic red-tape could be the bandaid that holds democracy together. I hope they face a mountain of obstacles and lawsuits and judges that knock them down.
I have been pondering what things might look like when Orange Face, say, fires all the generals and puts in his lackeys..
My concern is his new team, they are off the charts crazy, and TFG knows now how to maneuver through the government based on his experience last time. Scary and sickening times. It sucks
But he opened the door for Hitler, Franco. That has always been my fear about Trump. I've been saying it for almost a decade now. He isn't Hitler. He is just normalizing the goose-step towards a Fascist regime.
The Left & Center-Left have been left rudderless while The Right has been organized for this moment for years. People feel helpless...and they are
If the sun is out, a Democrat is going to be bad talking one of the few elected representatives we have. Please continue, it was so helpful the last four years.
But go off
Pity us poor POC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/Stockdale-Concept.html
Women, Native Americans, Black Americans...
'This is not a fight to win, this is a fight to fight'
The way I read it and internalise it is that no matter what the odds are you have to keep fighting. Admit that is difficult if you want but keep fighting
New leadership is needed across the board.
Let's get back to work.
https://bsky.app/profile/pluribus-unum.co/post/3lbtyk7unos2a
We are like the orchestra playing while the Titanic was sinking.
It's one blow after the next.
Example:
Charges dropped by Jack Smith because that lawless criminal was re-elected.
Example: Retribution from Trump against good people.
EXAMPLE: PROJECT 2025
Especially from big accounts with influence.
I would rather folks just be gentle w/ each other, which 2/
I don't think it means amplifying each other's despair, is all. Things are hard enough without getting each other spiralling. 3/3
People who belong to the Cheeto-Lini cult want us to feel defeated and I'm not giving them the pleasure.
The only way out is through, so focus on solutions. Don’t waste time on “why.” They’re shitty people, that’s why. You can’t rationalize the irrational. Accept it for what it is, but don’t accept that it has to be this way.
But yeah, be resisting in all the ways, big and small.
Take the day to wallow once in a while. Then get back up and move again.
But I plan to keep sabotaging by educating. I will beat them with books. Possibly literally if needed.
I vet non fiction books hard - took me months to pick a presidential set.
Doesn't hurt I was a history teacher and researcher before becoming a librarian.
Figuring out the right fights will be tricky sometimes, but finding the fights sure as hell won't be.
But I hope to be soon.
✌️
Democracy Forward says it has prepared a raft of potential legal challenges to Trump’s agenda with a coalition of over 280 advocacy groups called Project 2025 to fight Trump’s power grabs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/us/politics/democracy-forward-trump-administration.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Check your privilege.
And yes, half. 3rd party & non-voters count as votes forTFG or acceptance of his goals.
We can only wait & react, & hope someone clones a Sanders or Sheldon Whitehouse out in the public to show attack points.
Sending armed soldiers to households in an effort to find immigrants.
Escalating the war in Ukraine by giving Putin carte blanche to do whatever he wants with no threat of US intervention.
Same in Gaza for Netanyahu.
What I didn't do was throw up my hands and scream "We're doomed!" from the rooftops.
By all means, rest and take your time to process. When you are good and ready there is work to be done.
I wish fighting fascism was a simple thing but it just isn’t. We’re going to be dealing with these morons all our lives.
we need to collectively take a deep breath
Heritage Foundation has been infiltrating goverment since 1992.
Signed
Ex Citizen Action staff trainer who was working against HF in the 90s
Don't recall seeing any of you.