Red fascists exist and it's totally possible for lefty spaces to just become intolerably toxic without becoming Nazi. If this is your ONLY metric for a space going sour you're going to miss a lot
There's nothing 'semi-nihilist' or ironic about having fun enjoying a space with moderation enough that it's not filled with fascists. I know how toxic the online left can be. I also know how annoying libs are when they show up to call actual left-wing people red-fascists.
I'd like to think that a few of the folks who were so cruelly dunking on @phoebebovy.bsky.social a couple of weeks ago just might start to consider the possibility that she may have had at least something of a valid point? Or is sober second thought too much to hope for? https://bsky.app/profile/phoebebovy.bsky.social/post/3lbjxo6xsmk2e
I think you’d do yourself a big favor if you stopped to think about the kind of speech and ideas you’re advocating for with this statement. And not just canting “all speech” platitudes. Maybe actually consider the language and (very importantly) the clear implications of the speech your thinking of
Don't worry, we aren't unintelligible inbred liars and we don't use fear and fake conspiracies theories as a campaign strategy, it won't ever become X.
You came to the anti corporation platform with a specific cynical marketing strategy and if anyone could be responsible for repeating the mistakes of the past it isn't the folks writing dope original thoughts about how people like you suck the air out of the room.
Could you more clearly define what you mean by "X"? Like, does that simply mean having people who vociferously disagree with you? Lax moderation? The presence of non-centrists?
It's bad for sure. I've been in endless threads on Twitter with right-wing climate deniers, they go round in circles with complete nonsense. I say leave that crap over on Twitter, and have rational evidence-based debate here, and people can choose.
These over corrections are a fact of life now, unfortunately. I stopped using Twitter because I got tired of “nudes in bio” and other trolls. Would welcome more conservative academics here.
You people are do greedy. You want all the space. All the idea need your sign on. Let us be in our corner. You have all the others, you suck up all the resources with your entitlement.
I’m not a member of the Federalist Society. I’ve spoken to them before, just as I’ve spoken to many groups. That sort of engagement is a big part of what academics do.
As an academic, if someone invited me to “contribute” to a panel/talk at a forum bent on reshaping American principles to achieve anti-American agendas, I wouldn’t go, on principle, so as not to legitimize and promote said org. I think a lot of academics don’t do that either.
That's an extremely narrow slice from the other side of the fence, and one that's self-selected to some extent and also very obviously asymmetrically on a leash.
Because all the Republican party does is racism, attacking Americans for being immigrants and tax cuts for wealthy, which has never worked the 40 years we've been trying.
All I need to know if these people are part of the Federalist Society. As a historian of early America, the evil that group has willingly inflicted on our republic with “originalism” knows no bounds. Notice how they don’t state it anywhere though.
Nope. Not too late. Trust the process. Organic growth and evolution and ebb and flow and updating of older principles in light of new pressure on those principles. Jeez Louise Adler you’re supposed to be the conservative here ; )
I mean the trolls aren't prioritized in the feed and the pile-ons don't get signal boosted, etc. so there's still the underlying social structures that give rise to problems but not the technological accelerant.
...well, that would be demonstrably inaccurate, which is one of the reasons I've noticed this pattern from you. But your unwillingness to engage in good faith dialogue is noted.
“I didn’t know I had that many followers”?? I think Mr. Adler should spend less time worrying about the ideological composition of Bluesky’s userbase and more time worrying about the carbon monoxide content of the air in his room.
As Dylan once said, don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
In the same way humanity didn't need to hear about nuance and reasoning of Nazis in WW2, or Stalin's hot take, or Mao, or Gen. Zogface or whichever fucko is spouting bile this time.
Guys guys calm down. He just means the “X” part as in don’t threaten to kill everyone who disagrees with you like American online “conservatives” often do. He’s not saying change the left wing political nature of the app.
If you go to every law professor here in this site it’s the same bullshit. There’re the architects of the status quo and they want to go back to normal - whatever the fuck that is.
What does left wing x even look like. There’s no one here that loves anything as much as right wingers love rape, guns and replacement theory. At best you have some insults and rage but what comparison is prof broski making here.
instead, we should turn it into a place for former DOJ losers and assocaite professors who should be blasting ozempic while wildly brandishing divorced dad energy.
What's is happening? Is there a situation that makes you give a such warning? Are you implying bluesky team is manipulating the algorithms? Since you are seriously, please make clear statements instead of analogy. This will prompt a constructive conversation, which is not "turning it into left X". 🧡
You did great following through. It seems like a lot of people (like Jesse) thought they could move to “new party” and get an automatic reset. But only for the bad stuff they said at the last party. And are dismayed that the people who started “new party” aren’t so welcoming after he dumped on them.
You know, I’ve seen you about on this platform, and I never see you actually having these conversations you claim to crave— I only see you talking about how badly you want to have them. Why is that?
I don’t know man. Last I checked your so-called neutral spaces helped elect a rapist insurrectionist wannabe tinpot dictator president. I’m here for the alternative to that.
Some ideas aren't worth discussing. Twitter is full of those and they are what makes the place unbearable. Bluesky moves the Overton window back to recognisable humanity
NOTHING CAN BE GAINED from interacting with rightoids. They have nothing of value to say, and we learn nothing from talking to them because theirs is the ambient ideology of the world we live in.
What's the point in listening to a perspective that rules every single institution of American life?
I'm happy to discuss whether your tax policy ideas suck, happy to discuss whether your preferred sport sucks, or your local team. So many things, we can talk about whether they suck.
I draw the line at discussing whether your existence sucks. You should try drawing the same line.
Cmon, man. No platform is neutral. Every one admits some diversity of perspectives and curtails others as a function of both design and community. This is fundamental stuff.
If you have a substantive vision of WHICH diversity you want Bsky to present, you can say so!
Community members enforce norms that have zilch to do with law. GOP senators draw the line at sex trafficking minors. Raping adult women is tolerated. That’s their norm.
On BlueSky we try not to punch down. Our web’s only as strong as our weakest thread. Why would you poke holes in it?
no one is preventing people who want to be in a conversation from having it. Bluesky gives the rest of us the tools we need to ignore it Engage with whoever you want. I don’t need to listen.
Believe me, we've all heard everything the right will ever have to contribute to any topic, and it's all shit. I don't need a barely-literate flag wanker screaming about conspiracies at me on every single corner of the Internet, thank you.
Intellectual diversity is what I mean here. So a narrow slice of the political spectrum is much less diverse than the public at large (most of which are not hugely partisan).
diversity is actually better here, because people who are silenced and persecuted on X have a better time here, so they can finally express themselves and build their community
please respect them and dont try to make this space into your particular ideal of "neutral", it's not
Again, this is a strange assumption. There are democrats or people on the left side of the spectrum with all levels of wealth, education, religion, sexuality, country of origin, and viewpoints. There are abolitionists and cops, scientists and anti-vaxxers. What perspective is lacking, exactly?
“intellectual diversity” is a calculated coinage by people aiming to smuggle unevidenced and hateful ideologies into public discourse by making us debate vague metadiscursive bullshit instead of talking about what should actually happen
Okay, but why does it have to be *this platform*, which was built by people whose humanity is debated by those "diverse perspectives" and has very deliberately created moderation tools and standards with that in mind?
There seems to be a common assumption underlying this argument that Bluesky is intended to be the new "digital public square" except without whatever aspect of Musk-era Twitter the user making it disliked. I do not recall anyone promising that.
Technically Jack Dorsey promised it when he invented this place to be a version of Twitter without centralized moderation. He later bailed on this site when everyone begged for centralized moderation.
I didn't say it was promised. I said it would be a good thing to have. The openness of this platform, and the fact it's not controlled by a temperamental billionaire with political and foreign business interests make it promising.
You may not know, "this platform" operated as Twitter till they broke away, and Twitter changed its name to X
"This platform" was built for debate in its origin, and Im pretty certain it will continue to be. Nothing much seems different, nor the TOS, nor the layout and the "se_-bots" etc
I also just *do* find a lot of diverse perspectives. It's a pretty decent public square, with people from all over, sub-communities, journalists covering breaking events. Leftists, liberals, conservatives, atheists, faithful of all kinds. We have the bar and we've kept it not a nazi bar.
you seem lost either way. you're looking for a town square allowing any opinions not inciting violence, but you're also insisting everyone show up to it and hear one another out. problem is that this is privately owned and moderated social media, and you can't force anyone to listen to anyone else
If you look at the state of SM and say it is mostly civil discourse without acknowledging the divisive current running through it, I won't waste my breath to explain. We need people with the stones to have challenging conversations with good intent. If not, stfu.
What is "neutral?" What does that even mean? Discussing ideas from diverse perspectives is great. But not if it includes conspiracy theories, fact-free arguments, dehumanization, or outright lies. Fascism not welcome here.
Fair comment, but I'll gently request you submit a shortlist of current Republican elected officials, their mouthpieces, or Republican strategists who traffic in honest dialogue. Take as long as you need.
Ok, but if this is about Jesse Singal, that motherfucker doesn't have any ideas to discuss. He's just asking questions, and all of those questions lead to hateful outcomes. Fuck that dude.
I would invite you to consider that some people not as white and male presenting as you might have a different experience in this mythical “neutral platform where people discuss ideas.” Some of us appreciate a platform that is less Twitter-like.
you can’t have a “neutral platform,” both because neutrality is erring on the side of the status quo, and because allowing bigotry inherently excludes those victimized by bigotry.
the idea of a neutral platform is a myth, so the question is whose voices are you going to choose to platform?
Arguably he also results in less discussion because he's fundamentally dishonest and simply trying to drive engagement for profit while attracting his abusive followers
Ah Ha... discuss is cool. My only issue is with those who rather than discuss. The assume, They stand stubborn in their beliefs propagating their hate and lack of caring. This applies to the supposedly left and the supposedly right.
Discussions from diverse perspectives are for things like economic policy and foreign affairs, not for whether or not certain people deserve fundamental rights
Diverse ideas like “I want to be able to hang out somewhere without assholes attacking me” and “I want to be an asshole and attack a random user just trying to live their life”
You’ve never read (Twitter)@IAmRageSparkle’s account of why you never even allow one single Nazi to sit at the bar, have you? If you let the nice quiet presentable Nazi sit down, your bar will turn into a Nazi bar before you know it.
Maybe people don’t want to debate and defend their existence every minute of every day, Alan, you don’t have to let shitty views in to know they’re bad.
Seriously, if you want to see transphobic bigotry so much, you should go back to Twitter where the CEO actively posts that stuff himself, not try to remake a place that's been a (relative) safe haven for trans people from the early days.
It's really very simple. If you like what you're reading - stay and play; if you don't - leave. I'm not sure why any one individual thinks they can/should dictate what people post.
If something annoys me, I mute the thread. It's called minding my business.
Where precisely are you drawing the line for "left-wing"?
Is it, by chance, anything that challenges your perceptions and makes you rethink? Is that you're mad Jesse Singal's factually intolerant work is labelled intolerant?
Singal is a notorious dipshit whose softpedalled transphobia has done irreparable harm to actual humans bullying him off a platform is the morally correct thing to do
Fuck off to Threads or mastodon or whatever. Fuck off into the sun. Fuck off into forever and ever. To the great beyond. To your goddamn mama's house so she can finish raising your dumbass.
M. @arozenshtein.bsky.social, that makes no sense. Leftist ideologies are, on the whole, rational and sensible and can at least be argued; X's fascism is purely irrational and destructive in nature and admits of no argument. There's no false equivalent to be made here, no "horseshoe theory".
X normalized the idea that a lot of things that are basic human decency are somehow left wing. I don’t want to hear opinions of people doing that any more.
Comments
Uuurrgh!!
Also conservatives can go kick rocks
They have nothing to offer us. Every conservative academic theory has been around for a century or more. There is nothing new to them
These law school professors - it’s their graduated students that work to depose people who try to sue insurance companies.
Because all the Republican party does is racism, attacking Americans for being immigrants and tax cuts for wealthy, which has never worked the 40 years we've been trying.
As on the other site, typos are part of the brand.
Just registering my skepticism -- think of it as a Burkean concern about efforts to remake the world by decree.
BIG CHUNGUS
BIG CHUNGUS
In the same way humanity didn't need to hear about nuance and reasoning of Nazis in WW2, or Stalin's hot take, or Mao, or Gen. Zogface or whichever fucko is spouting bile this time.
It ends.
Go and both-sides yourself.
here's the article singal defending child sexual abuse caused by kenneth zucker jesse singal is a crypto pedo and blusky is covering for him.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/01/false-charge-helped-bring-down-kenneth-zucker.html
lol
Block.
My capacity for patience with these guys is just….. < zero
Should terrorist recruitment videos be allowed?
It got worse under Musk but no it wasn't. If you mean this earnestly I envy your bubble
What's the point in listening to a perspective that rules every single institution of American life?
I draw the line at discussing whether your existence sucks. You should try drawing the same line.
Intolerance can gtfo 🤷
Always punch Nazis.
If you have a substantive vision of WHICH diversity you want Bsky to present, you can say so!
B) what is the objective definition of "antisocial behavior that hurts the platform itself"?
On BlueSky we try not to punch down. Our web’s only as strong as our weakest thread. Why would you poke holes in it?
diversity is actually better here, because people who are silenced and persecuted on X have a better time here, so they can finally express themselves and build their community
please respect them and dont try to make this space into your particular ideal of "neutral", it's not
"I hate vanilla ice cream" is a neutral subject.
"I think 's' group are intrinsically unworthy of rights" is not.
"This platform" was built for debate in its origin, and Im pretty certain it will continue to be. Nothing much seems different, nor the TOS, nor the layout and the "se_-bots" etc
https://bsky.app/profile/brainnotonyet.bsky.social/post/3lb2ed5stwk2f
The Paradox of Tolerance
Most interaction here is user mediated and what you are saying might take more process.
I think it is possible to model, but participation changes the dynamic.
if not, why should other people make that allowance
DOGE Czar Elon Musk on Twitter this week posted "Defund the ACLU."
Many on here showed a screen grab of that post and pointed out the ACLU receives no government funding.
Are those "diverse perspectives" or one lie and one fact?
When the only representation you see of conservatives is nut-picked Musk, you omit a broad swath of commentary.
But that idea has been proven to have practical limits in the real world.
Keeping the platform low on the ol’ racism, antisemitism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny etc is necessary to provide that space.
the idea of a neutral platform is a myth, so the question is whose voices are you going to choose to platform?
Look up Tolerance Paradox, too.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221221103518/https://god.dailydot.com/bartender-kicks-out-tweets/
As a woman online i don’t really find your opinions useful here
If something annoys me, I mute the thread. It's called minding my business.
Is it, by chance, anything that challenges your perceptions and makes you rethink? Is that you're mad Jesse Singal's factually intolerant work is labelled intolerant?
surprise surprise
we're better without that shit
penispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenis
Just git.
Counterpoint: No, I am not.