i think rage at congestion pricing is a good example of how no one believes that the world can be positive sum anymore. like, people pay a small fee to get access to a faster commute — saving them valuable time — and the money improves public transit, saving other people valuable time. it's win-win!
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Maybe 10 years of showing them Trump's vile ignorance and abusive behavior will be rewarded mattered.
this is so unhinged and gross but also - very stupid. like childish in its lack of knowledge about history and the world and people.
tl;dr:
"How do we know we are winning, Winston?
"By making other people lose."
B. The cruelty is the point
It isn't a win-win scheme. It's a "rich win-poor lose" scheme.
They almost always were given a leg up by their robber parents.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abm2385
Ignorant conservatives don't actually give a remote moral shit about LGBTQIA+ rights or student loans or undocumented residents: They've been bamboozled into FEAR that helping the marginalized takes resources away from them rather than adds to them.
The belief that you can't win without someone else losing is bad, but the belief that if someone else is losing you must be winning is even worse.
This was the election of people in new F150s being upset their neighbors could afford a used Kia Forte.
Then again, we can be blunt when we want: San Francisco flat out banned private cars on Market St in downtown, significantly reducing congestion that was delaying public transit.
Only 45% of NYC households have cars. If you look at Manhattan specifically, that drops to 22%.
Restaurants have used congestion pricing for years and nobody notices.
https://disneyconnect.com/disneyworld/reedy-creek-the-facts-you-need-in-2024/
'mericans have become much more "it's all about me me me" in the last 10 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/sep/15/queenslands-50-cent-public-transport-fares-to-remain-with-support-of-both-major-parties?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
This benefits the wealthy most of all because it has no impact on their financial well-being.
And it's okay for the wealthy to stand with the poor here.
Let's take the case of the maid who lives in New Jersey and has a full schedule of clients to serve on both sides.
Can she still serve them as efficiently on public transit?
Seems like the essential users are the poorest and the idle wealthy are the problem. Who gets to drive now?
So now a poorer worker or family is paying for both a vehicle and burdened by either a regressive use tax or negatively impacted by a problematic public transit system.
I'm in favor of a solution but I don't think this is it.
“Yeah, I asked a cop once. It means, ‘Up yours, kid.’”
I do have sympathy for the people who have to add this as a daily expense and are already struggling.
Uh I guess they are a necessary evil
“no mike, taxes are good”
I hope congestion pricing does can overcome this tendency
It's a hard river to row against.
The old films of hop on off tram lines in my city a hundred years ago make me lament the loss of that luxury.
Capitalism is not a working system, it is unbalanced, it is unstable, and it is absolutely self consuming.
It won't last, as its internal mechanics makes it so it CAN'T last.
This is humanity's cancer.
Also, the so called theory behind this is to discourage travel into Manhattan south but the toll collection mechanism relies on that travel.
Start it at the city line.
I worked for Transit for 28+ years. They mismanage at top levels & do nothing to prevent fare evasion. They lose millions per year that way.
I don't believe this will improve service. Wall Street elites just get less traffic.
What I hate is when they say, "here's a toll to do this good thing". Then they use the money for feeding the rich peoples trough.
https://bsky.app/profile/costumedactivist.bsky.social/post/3lf3mcyejqk2t
Like that’ll happen.
Normally the 'price' of driving is congestion. Adding a lane lowers the price, more people drive, congestion increases again.
Here there's an explicit price, paid even if the roads are empty.
Consider the reverse, where this charge was the status quo, and someone was proposing removing it to improve affordability, with the effects of increasing travel times, noise, and pollution. Would you think that makes sense?
Congestion pricing allowed railroads to bleed farmers dry getting their produce to market.
I think broadly people very much do not value their time
What value do you put on the quality of life of poor people living in Manhattan? Any? Or is it only drivers who you care about?
With the multiple charges in London now , many people are spending $20 per day extra , those that live in the zone pay more , 365 days a year.
Also- without cars, how are the stores going to get their supplies for the shelves. Bike it in. $$$$$$$$
But I'm sure their expense accounts will increase
Unfortunately, the MTA (and don't get me started on the criminal mayor we have!) has a history of mismanagement, and many are skeptical the improvements will happen.
My kid's school is in the zone. The less wealthy kids tend to live outside the zone (now $9/day if we need to drive to school for any reason) & already have more challenging commutes, but there's no fee for the wealthy in-zone families.
Most of inner borough Manhattan doesn't drive, and most outer borough workers going to Manhattan already take alternative transit. The "lower congestion" doesn't benefit them
Lower income transit users might benefit from fare breaks though, and if the money finds its way to actual improvements and not just more "security" then that might be worth it.
https://smhttp-ssl-58547.nexcesscdn.net/nycss/images/uploads/pubs/Congestion_Pricing_-_CSS_Analysis_V42.pdf
When I DO go to the city, I either sit in traffic or pay more to use a road my tax dollars already built.
Why not put in a turnstile that sends every other car through the "new" road?
I’d like to know exactly what improvements this is buying because all I’ve heard so far has been vague and hand wavy. Not convincing.
New rail cars for subway and LIRR
Accessibility upgrades at 5 stations (elevators!)
Upgrade signaling so the subway isn’t controlled with turn of the 20th century machinery
And that’s just 2025
And paying a Director or VP of the system more SHOULD NOT be considered as an improvement
It sounds like a 21st century version of 'trickle down economics' to me
So, all it looks like is Lexus lanes: improved commutes for those who can afford it at the cost of those who can't.
So, congestion pricing can be good, but it can also be class warfare.
Sometimes it's badly done.
Where do you think that comes from?
Pro-CP here, but: the additional spend for some non-well off drivers who must drive is, in fact, a big issue; and mass transit improvements may not materialize in their lifetimes.
Even non-& casual smokers used enjoy the association of drinking & smoking. Seemed hip and that the ban was prudish.
Now it’s clearly wonderful.
Unless they are rich, in which case they love it.
Really? I saw a lot on social media about people noticing less traffic on Monday and speculating it was due to CP (not clear).
If you're rationally affluent, paying the $9 but then having less traffic to deal with is worth it!
Our system “incentivizes” the rich by giving them more money, while “incentivizes” the poor and middle class by taxing them more!
to another location in the zone is there a charge?
I saw a story in the NYT that said there will be a $0.75 surcharge per ride for taxis and $1.50 surcharge for Uber/Lyft for riders.
The trains and buses will be more crowded, though if the funds allow for more frequent service and new lines, that will be eased.
The 2nd Ave. line may be weak tea, but it has reduced overcrowding on the Lexington IRT. It's what we've needed for years. More stations, less crowding, everyone benefits.
Do you even live here?
Now increase the bus service now that there is no traffic to compound the win
They want to shit everywhere with no shame
Eventually government will lose expertise and be left to poorly serve only unprofitable communities.
But the “private” road being here is an improvement.
We moved there 25 y ago for the schools and he's been angry about school levies ever since 🤷🏼♀️
It's the same psychological barrier that makes it hard for people to invest for retirement - the pain of paying now feels more real than the abstract benefit later.
https://bsky.app/profile/bendwalsh.bsky.social/post/3lf3bswzc4224
Far too many people are becoming convinced life is zero sum, so get all you can while you can.
At everyone else’s expense.
Or at least that’s what people want you to believe. The world hasn’t run out of stuff yet like scientists thought. There are reasons to believe
like my immediate association is uber charging people hundreds of dollars
I don’t think teaching economics in high schools will actually solve the problem, but it might stop me from seeing educated people being illiterate in these concepts.
an inevitable consequence of:
-convincing everyone there's no society
-convincing everyone the arbiter of trade-offs (govt) always makes everything worse for everyone
When trying to determine 'best' people become selfish & only think of their own wallet. God is good.
Screw body of christ & community.
The same people mad at sensible congestion pricing are the same whiners who freak TF out whenever someone proposes also sensibly charging for the three East River bridges.
perfect price point to maintain most of the commuters in order to maximize revenue to dump into a subway system they will never fix. It’s just a way to tax ubers and non nyc.
Their pointless cars aren’t gonna be clogging up the streets.
All metropolitans should be providing fast rechargeable o/head commuter trains banning cars from city, supply rechargeable covered 3 wheelers for hire all monies to city & restrict all other traffic to bicycles.
Cars restricted to 2200 hrs to 0500 hrs.
Why do we give drivers free enviable access to the central business district? If they think it's profitable to get/be there, there should be a price to pay, in order to maintain the public infrastructure that gives them access & makes the CBD attractive
Amazing that the city so reliant on real estate revenue is willing to give away so much of it for free.
$9/day... if you have to go every weekday, that's over $2k/year just in tolls.
Research on my own?
That's what ah eye is for!
I stated that exceptions should be for a higher income level. Currently, anyone making less than $60,000 may qualify for a tax credit.
“I took a relative for cancer treatments in lower Manhattan. That’s nine bucks.”
Sympathetic!
“Also parking cost was $30 per hour”
Never mind.
Congestion pricing is smart — the early resistance I felt def came from years living in the DMV and sitting in traffic so I don’t have to pay $28 to access HOV.
Stay safe theater workers.