I also firmly believe that we need to crush these people’s spirits into blood and earth, not be *nice* to the amoral supporters of an aspirational gore-soaked dictator
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No more coddling people through their racism, discrimination, and hate. I’m tired of people saying these are political differences. As a society we can say get the F out of here and go back to the shadows.
As of right now: we unfortunately aren't guaranteed a win. That said: aside from their agenda being horrific, the faction in question are incapable of being gracious in either victory or defeat. Why should we be obligated to be gracious with them?
We need to have the sort of detached compassion we (liberals) feel is appropriate to arrested but not convicted prisoners - NOT how conservatives want to treat them:
Calm, detached sympathy and reasonable behaviour.
Not the rapacious aggression conservatives want to use on arrestees.
It's so frustrating because the argument basically boils down to person B is willing to put person A in a concentration camp if they gain power but if person B loses person A is a bad person for not smiling at them at trader Joe's. Like no, You know exactly what you were going to do, get out
After 2016, after the LITERAL ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT, after all that...you want us to have COMPASSION? They are willing participants in fascism! They, with open eyes, have steered the country towards ruin, and you want me to feel BAD for them if they lose?
Even then, even if the next Republican candidate is 100% 'I believe in Democracy and the rule of law, and Donald Trump lost', they're still going to be for women dying due to lack of proper medical care, making health care as pay-to-play as possible, and removing LGBTQ+ from society. So fuck'em.
I mean if Trump is free and has a pulse he's going to run again and GOP primary voters are going to sail him through for a 4th time no matter how much the rest of the party wants him gone.
He'll be in jail long before then, and enough Republicans will be sick of losing because of hi that he wouldn't even win the primary anyway. Also, he's 78 now and can barely climb into a garbage truck; he'll be 82 then.
He won't see jail time, and his supporters will never be sick of him. I think he's an embarrassment, but if he didnt do time for election fraud, if he didnt do time for Jan 6, and if the sup court is saying he's untouchable, how is he going to see the inside of a cell?
IMHO, there is no chance Trump will ever end up in jail, even if he loses the election. The Supreme Court will stop every attempt at accountability for him, no matter how ridiculous and stilted the legal "justification".
Yeah, he's sundowning. They slapped Biden with that old shit but the last few weeks Trumps been worse than Biden ever has been. I mean he literally just stared off into space for nearly 40 minutes at a rally in plain view, can't remember what city he's in and has a permanent slur now.
I honestly think that at this point, continuing to prop him up as a presidential candidate constitutes elder abuse. The man has dementia and should be watching TV all day in a nursing home.
I think that is the most likely scenario myself but I never underestimate the cowardice of the Dems and Repubs can't really control the primary voters. It's why all repub candidates are freak shows who can't win general elections even in red states.
I'm hoping they split and he has to run as the MAGA party candidate from prison. If they run Senate candidates and MAGA can pull even 10% then we can flip so many seats and get some real shit done.
yeah, the reality of the cult of personality like Trumps is that if he's not *the* guy, they don't want another candidate, they rather devote their effort and time to him and him alone.....and after he dies, a political dynasty. That's why RFK's pool of voters was pretty adaptable in absorption.
Trump will be in memory care or dead. This is his last stand. He knows it. Seeing the numbers tomorrow will crush what’s left of his mind. He’s done. Good riddance.
This is it, itsn't it? The conditions that created maga, trump etc still exist. They will continue to produce a fascist movement unless they're cleaned up. E.g. degraded media, half educated law enforcement, foreign propaganda and I don't know what else - evangelicals?
Yep. I am so, so sick of the emotional labor of “being the better person” only ever being demanded of the half of the population that is *already* constantly trying to help the world however we can.
I agree. And stop this dehumanization of people by grouping them together. MAGA is creating the same environment of hate against themselves because of their own hatred of groups of others. Campaigns that show us how to embrace difference starts with all of us. Lower the temperature.
I want to se etheir political machine obliterated, dismantled by electoral failure, for it to vanish like the Whigs it replaced so something new can arise as "conservative", however it manifests
I am not at al keen on any use of "blut und boden" references on my side of the house however
What's especially funny to me is that a lot of the people calling for civility for freshly- and narrowly-defeated totalitarians immediately start cursing at the people who object to their leniency.
No the maga/GOP party needs to die a horrible death. I have no sympathy for anybody who votes for Trump not one bit. And if we lose well we gave it a best shot and America will die in the dark.
Yes, but by the same merit the neoliberals and warhawks of the less-bad side and people who support them for any other reason than harm reduction deserve about the same, given they're still risking what could have been a sure-fire win this election just to continue funding a genocide.
Yeah, i don't have any reason to even acknowledge anyone who supports this terribleness, much less give them a shoulder to cry on when they don't get their fascist/racist/sexist dream outcome.
These people are fundamentally bullies, and the kindness approach (and I am very pro-kindness!) doesn't work on them because attempts to be kind and understanding and not overreact is what has enabled them to be bullies.
Fair but serious consequences is the only thing that works.
This is the answer. We need to grind the movement to dust and implement honest democratic reforms to build a representative government that guards minoritarian movements.
I dont have a problem being nice but that doesn't mean we need to give them a platform or listen to them. At most, be aware of them and keep them back on their heels.
Dude, although I would like to see them crushed, it would be such a huge change for them to even face simple ACCOUNTABILITY. If Trump loses, everyone is gonna pretend that the vulgar fascism never happened (and we gotta get back to the genteel kind).
Yeah, I'm pretty quick to forgive a lot of the time if someone is truly sorry and takes action to change. I haven't seen that from very many of them at all.
I'd say "drive them back underground like the worms they are," if the humble earthworm wasn't worthy of far more respect than the comparison would imply.
I am all for compassion, but not at the expense of justice. This Rabbi pleads that we treat fascists and racists with compassion, without demanding that they renounce their hate.
It’s so telling that nobody ever implores them to show compassion to us. To do so would risk acknowledging that the core of MAGA is cruelty, something everyone understands but that some people will ignore for the sake of convenience
So my take is only when DJT acknowledges all of the lies and hate and disavows it all irrevocably, do we even talk about it. Short of that not an ounce!
All I ask is that they leave me and mine in peace. If they can manage that, I will cheerfully reciprocate.
They won't of course.
So I will use every tool at my disposal to cause them sufficient pain to do so.
I have zero respect for Trump supporters. I have always been against the inhumane idea of "re-education camps" but these MAGAs make me want to reconsider.
Yes, this doesn't end until the GOP is dead as an organization. It must go the way of the Whigs. Of course, the DNC needs to help, by building the new progressive party as a coalition within its own ranks. The DNC IS the conservative party now; the GOP isn't a political party anymore it's a Cartel.
Honestly I think the main motivation for a whole big slice of the mouth-breathing MAGA voters to keep supporting that turd is just fact that the one closest thing they've experienced in their entire lives to a satisfying orgasm--- was watching Hillary supporters cry in the Javits center in 2016
A book on Jesus that I read once stated that he had said and done most of the things that he reportedly said and did, on the assumption that the end of the world was imminent. From that pov, turning the other cheek makes total sense. Hell, I can turn every body part while I'm at it, what does it
matter if the earth will burn to ashes tomorrow and we will all rejoice in heaven the day after.
But we don't have that luxury. The world isn't ending. People who we turn the other cheek to today, will gleefully rip us to shreds tomorrow while being certain that this is a morally right thing to do
I am hearting what you said. I have no sympathy for people willing to support a rapist, racist, traitorous, sexist and generally disgusting blight of an orange talking compost pile.
I'm bracing for, whichever way the election goes, telling my family I'm not going to be at Thanksgiving. My parents and certain relatives are good, but I just can't celebrate a holiday with cousins who are literal fascists. I'd rather sit alone and eat ramen.
Maybe weird since we don’t know each other, but we’re both from NC, but my family always hosts Thanksgiving and will have 0 fascists present if you wanna come 😂
that's sweet of you, thank you! I do kind of miss when I lived up north and went to friends' houses, this was never an issue (plus, unlike my family, they permitted alcohol with the meal and didn't leave the football game on during it)
I’ve blocked / lost friends who I cannot fathom they’ve supported this shit show a 3rd time. Constantly changing their reasons to support him as he continues to promote nothing meaningful, only hate and his own ego. They (all of them) can fucking apologize and admit they’ve been wrong.
Being nice to people who want to deny some other people basic human rights or even existence both validates their urge to deny other people's rights / existence AND places the onus for healing on the victims of their hate. No quarter.
The only reason I've been able to rebuild a fragile relationship with my twin brother (aside from the passing necessity of our mom's final illness and death) is that Trump is no longer in power. If Trump wins, I lose my twin. Again. I do not truck with fascists who presume to have conquered me/us.
Wow, that headline is the most both-sides that ever both-sidesed. Democrats are afraid because abundant evidence *including Trump's own words" indicate that a win for him would be a huge step toward dictatorship. Republicans are afraid because they won't get to *be* dictators. Not the same at all.
Don't worry. I will feel a ton of compassion while I mock them, meet any of them who try to start shit in my city with proportional defensive force, et cetera.
Yeah, Caesar's coup plotters call from the grave to learn from their mistakes. Autocratic movements don't just go away because you're nice to them after you win.
A few minutes ago a truck flying multiple flags followed by a jeep with a huge trump banner tore up through my neighborhood at an unsafe speed while laying on the horn. Definitely could have hit a kid.
I’m all out of compassion right now. Think about it - in the last two weeks Trump and MAGA insulted everyone and threatened to unalive people. So nope.
Once a MAGAt figures out that they made a major mistake in supporting the orange felon, I can bring compassion. Until then, they can stew in their irrelevance.
I don't have compassion for Nazis and fascists.
Let them burn in the fires of hell.
And as for weak-willed assholes worried about their taxes or any of their other witless concerns, let them dine on rattlesnake tails.
Global civil war is coming. Fascsists vs antifa. It’s already starting in the EU. But here in Merka most people don’t even know how to recognize the fascist inside themselves as they are too busy blaming others. 1/
Problem is, the losers of an election don’t go away. We saw this after the last election. Trump supporters knew they were disliked and it didn’t change their minds, it hardened them. They didn’t see the light or soften, they just turned inward and organized and, I worry, got smarter. Got to planning
While I’m not thrilled at the prospect of doing the work to find that ‘more that unites us than divides us’ harmony, I also think shutting them out and calling them awful has made our society and our relationships worse overall. I’m resentful and frustrated and angry. But I think I’m going to try.
My therapist has told me that humans evolved to experience anxiety. If someone is putting the group at risk, the community lets them know. Anxiety is what that person feels as an awareness of self AND community. I’m cool to let them marinate in anxiety and wonder if anyone’ll talk to them again.
Say what you want, with consequences--and limits. No unchecked misinformation or advocating violence/bigotry on social media, and if you express those things in person, we stop hiring/fucking/being friends with you. No apologies, no regrets.
I mean true, but also, I'm going to do everything I can to absolutely rub MAGA-heads flaccid sneering shit-for-brains faces in shit by uhh expanding the social safety net.
We need to crush MAGA into dust or it will rise again, like we let the South replace slavery with Jim Crow. Thru judicial foot-dragging, we've already lost 4 years letting MAGA fester and putrify into today's crisis. This election and its aftermath need to end MAGA and Trump, whatever it takes.
My wife, good-hearted soul that she is, is firmly in the "let bygones be bygones" camp. Her crotchety old man? Not so much. If you voted to inflict the likes of Trump, and Ted Cruz on this country - AGAIN? - sorry, but we won't be singing songs around the goddamn campfire anytime soon.
A price must be paid. OK, it was cute to vote for that crazy reality show guy Trump in 2016. But after that 4-yr never-ending trainwreck, to stick with him in 2020? And then after Jan. 6? No. You forfeit your place in polite society until you return to reality and renounce your evil ways.
We tried that "When they go low, we go high" tactic during Obama's administration and they walked all over us. So I'm not in the mood to protect their feelings this time.
1) Embrace of racism
2) Embrace of totalitarianism
3) "we love Jesus" but ignore his teaching
4) people who shrugged at an insurrection
5) people who vilify immigrants
6) people who cheered when Roe V Wade was over turned
Ah yes, compassion with the „F*ck your feelings“ crowd who want to see terror and suffering unleashed upon their neighbors, especially if their skin isn’t lily white or if they’re any flavor of queer or non-Christian.
I grew up suffocated by conservatives. They do. When I was young and objected they called me "mr politically correct" and now they know better than to say that shit around me because I'm NOT nice about it when they do.
The generation that would fall for that “we must remember our civility!” rhetoric has stepped down. It’s the half of gen x that aren’t boomer lite and unhinged millennials now
These are the editorials that get run when they know they won't get their way & being that everything is projection, they expect that means they'll be in trouble forever, which, yeah, sure, if they can't do better. However, considering the bar for better is just "let others be" it shouldn't be hard.
The reason we still have to deal with this shit is because we never finished reconstruction.
Every time the worst parts of this country are beaten back at some point someone goes "no, be nice, so we can all move on." And then it bubbles up again a generation later.
There's a third option. It isn't black and white. That third option, post World war II was called the Marshall plan. At the end of World war I, the treaty of Versailles made Germany pay for their crimes. 1/
The Marshall Plan only succeeded because Nazi Germany had been utterly destroyed. Their cities were rubble, their people were starving. You can't reconstruct something that's still standing, and you can't give aid and comfort to an enemy that's still fighting. Today isn't V-E Day, it's only D-Day.
The Marshall plan completely replaced the ruling institutions and infrastructure of Germany after its total destruction. The Versailles treaty was a stupid ass reparations program for a war where the entire continent was to blame. There is no comparison for the Versailles treaty with this election.
Maybe it’s my Catholic upbringing but reconciliation requires confessing your sins, expressing contrition, and completing a penance for forgiveness. We’re not even to step 1 here.
Didn't say we were in the final phase. What I'm saying is we need a plan. A plan that is not built on hate. A plan that is not built on destruction. But we need a plan. You don't wait until the baby is born, to plan how you would care for the pregnancy. Nor how you will prepare for its arrival
Also there's an even easier analogue for this and it's Reconstruction and it's a good reminder that compassion for the people doing the oppressing resulted in decades of cruelty to the people they oppressed.
Marshall's plan was a reconstruction. Real reconstruction. In fact if you read some of his notes at the time that he was drawing up the plan he actually pointed to the failures of the reconstruction.
Compassion can come with accountability. People don't need to be left off the hook but being terrible will also lead to more animosity and hostile retaliation.
I mean, if you fail to learn after that then Nazi Punk Fuck Off
Yeah, you're right. The whole battle has been going on since the birth of the nation. So without all the caps and yelling and screaming. Know that there is a reason these hate-filled ideas gain traction. But no that if someone tries to tell you why. No one will listen.
But needing to put down a wolf who attacks your flock. Is not justification for killing every wolf that exists. Meeting hate with hate, is not an answer.
There's a bit of a problem with this? It's missing a LOT of details.
After the CW, factories in the north had *massive* strikes and conflicts. So the owners moved to the south and bought huge tracts of land around mill sites, and created the Company Towns.
firing and unhousing anyone who so much as sniffed at a union rep.
In the 1880's, there was a big push by the northern unions to move into the south, and tens of thousands of workers in the south were expecting organizers to show up to help.
"Going to war"? Idk if you've seen the news but they want me and my kid dead, and have made clear that they intend to use the power of the state toward that end. Until that is no longer a genuine threat I'm not gonna be receptive to "we should build them up".
If you mean "we should improve the material circumstances of everyone in the country" then like, congrats? you're talking to left-wingers, that was assumed?
And I do mean that. The biggest festering boil is that in the minds of so many white Southerners, they are being left behind while the rest of the country progresses. And they are. The haves versus have nots, when that Gulf is as large as it is. Becomes the basis for authoritarian takeover.
The Marshall Plan is completely off the table because nobody in this thread is proposing the kind of violence that made it a viable option in the first place
The problem with this analogy is that you have to crush them and let them have no options before you could Marshall plan them back to a semblance of something functional. The GOP still own the courts, will probably have the senate and have an iron grip on a lot of states.
The results of that, crushed the German spirit and economy. Giving rise to Adolf and his cronies. Marshall had another plan. He gave them the means to better themselves, voluntarily. In doing so making it so that they would not try again. 2/
The end of the civil war, dusted them off said they're there now sent them on their way with no hope no future no guidance. Absolutely crushing them, would involve genocide. Would involve yet another round like this. The Marshall plan attitude is where we need to go.
A few places where this analogy falls down: One, Germany lost the war on the battlefield in decisive fashion, whereas MAGA have been primed for years not to accept a loss in a fair democratic election. Germans responded well to the Marshall plan because they KNEW they lost; no one HAD to help them.
Second, Dems have extended a peaceful hand for YEARS, making concessions and compromises and the like, while MAGA has responded with ever-escalating rhetoric and threats. They have developed no appetite for unity because it does not serve their interests (see Point 1).
Interesting, because up until Truman, the Democratic party was his racist as they come. Yes even Roosevelt. Eisenhower continued that trend. Even George was pro-latino. The hardcore gop-specific hate. That's all on Donny boy
Well I never said my analogy was perfect. What I tried to make it was a place to begin a conversation about how do we move on. Hopefully starting tomorrow, we have a place to begin moving on.
The problem with this attitude is that today it is quite difficult to detect that the South lost the war. If, on the other hand, we had executed all the rebellion leaders for treason, then stripped slaveholders of all their property and distributed it to their former slaves, that might not be true.
That is probably true. But many of the generational rage people, are either not of the Gentry class in the south. Or they are now in the North, with Southern leanings.
Sometimes, living in a red state, I wonder if that’s because they rightfully (by the people they elect) expect public money to be stolen by/given to pitiful local oligarchs, which honestly does line up with some of what “communism” has offered the world in the past. Think: Favre, Tate, Bentley, LA
We already tried that with Biden. Massive policy wins for all Americans with the CHIPs Act, IRA, stock market record highs, an economy the envy of the world and MAGA thinks we’re in a recession. They shoot up Dem HQs, set ballot boxes on fire, and we’re not even to the real election disputes yet
They laughed at a joke about the family of a woman who died driving from Georgia to NC to get healthcare denied by his retrograde christofascist judges. Fuck them.
"Remember, be nice to the people who were and still are screaming vile invective at you, castigating you for being alive, and actively working to make the world a worse place out of spite and hatred.
No, we won't ask them to be nice back, only liberals need to be nice"
If we win, I will allow myself a finite amount of time to gloat, enjoy an extra large slice of chocolate covered schadenfreude, some pointing and laughing and jeering, and then I’ll just get on with it. Could be a couple of days, could be the rest of my days.
I literally refused to go on a trip with my brother's mother-in-law because she's a Trump supporter and I'm a trans woman. We would have been at each other's throats if I came along.
I have no idea why the press is acting like this is a normal election with two normal candidates. The election of Trump would literally threaten the press if they are critical of him! Just call it what it is!
lol, I just realized this screenshot I've been holding onto came from here. Thank you @prettyliltakemachine.is-extremely.gay for summing up my feelings on politics in 2024
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fuck them all. every last one.
I will also always yell about Paradox of Tolerance at those stupid "be nice!" takes
Calm, detached sympathy and reasonable behaviour.
Not the rapacious aggression conservatives want to use on arrestees.
These people have no compassion for ANYONE. Why are they owed it?
Being nice to fascists creates more fascism.
https://myferretsatepepethefrog.blogspot.com/2024/11/not-going-back-american-revelation.html
In related news I named my fists compassion and sympathy
Hopefully not as anti-Democratic, but you can't even rule that out....
IMHO 🤷♀️
No, this isn’t a suggestion that violence will or should be done to him. It’s what I think of his apparent state of physical health.
The last person I saw in a state as deteriorated as his right now, was dead within months.
He’ll run from a prison cell if he has to
If and when Trump dies there will be a MASSIVE knife-fight for who gets to be king of shit mountain.
And watching a well-funded IRS audit a whole lot of deserving characters
I am not at al keen on any use of "blut und boden" references on my side of the house however
Physics is amoral.
These are people with agency.
They are IMMORAL and we need to normalize calling immoral people immoral, in public and with our chests. And then ostracizing them for it.
1. The compassion we owe to people actually in our lives (especially family) is different from how we need to feel about a movement.
2. Compassion doesn’t mean indulgence. I can feel bad for Eichmann in his cell without letting him out of his cell.
Fair but serious consequences is the only thing that works.
Luckily, I probably won’t ever meet one of the latter.
They don't show compassion for us
https://bsky.app/profile/juliusgoat.bsky.social/post/3la4obxkuah2e
a vote for trump is a way of saying either "i don't care" or "i like his views", both of which are pretty good indicators of a person's moral compass
They won't of course.
So I will use every tool at my disposal to cause them sufficient pain to do so.
Pieces that advocate such a position are unserious and ignorant at best
But we don't have that luxury. The world isn't ending. People who we turn the other cheek to today, will gleefully rip us to shreds tomorrow while being certain that this is a morally right thing to do
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
oops, sorry my turn to work the holiday 😎
https://bsky.app/profile/www.bugbeardispatch.com/post/3la7kdcrrsf2f
I mean, you *are* the authority here.
See also, reconstruction.
We must have compassion for the losing Confederate States of America. ?
I mean, it just sounds so familiar...
I want all bad things for them forever, tbh
They need to be reminded that they were dumb enough to do that.
Every last one of them needs to be told, "Oh, I saw you put on a garbage bag. You really embraced being called out for your shittery, didn't you?"
Let them burn in the fires of hell.
And as for weak-willed assholes worried about their taxes or any of their other witless concerns, let them dine on rattlesnake tails.
🤔
News flash people: if you are not supporting fascsism, you are indeed antifa. Neutrality is fascsism.
https://www.the-reframe.com/apology-not-accepted/
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social/post/3la63skr62u2w
Ignoring problems don’t make them go away, and in the case of bullies and ignorance, it allows them to flourish.
1) Embrace of racism
2) Embrace of totalitarianism
3) "we love Jesus" but ignore his teaching
4) people who shrugged at an insurrection
5) people who vilify immigrants
6) people who cheered when Roe V Wade was over turned
etc etc
I could be wrong but they're clearly tired and scared.
Nope.
fuck them
Every time the worst parts of this country are beaten back at some point someone goes "no, be nice, so we can all move on." And then it bubbles up again a generation later.
We need to double tap
Basically, if Harris wins, we need to actually complete the reconstruction process, instead of shrugging and giving up bc it was too hard.
I mean, if you fail to learn after that then Nazi Punk Fuck Off
Just so infuriating.
After the CW, factories in the north had *massive* strikes and conflicts. So the owners moved to the south and bought huge tracts of land around mill sites, and created the Company Towns.
The owners maintained control by
/ 1
In the 1880's, there was a big push by the northern unions to move into the south, and tens of thousands of workers in the south were expecting organizers to show up to help.
They never arrived, and all those workers were
/ 2
"Let them go their way" rather than stringing their leadership (more than just Davis and Lee) from trees led to "reconcilliation".
The Highland Clearances meant there was no reprise of "The '45".
I say that as someone with moderate Irish Republican.
https://www.economics.ox.ac.uk/article/reconciliation-narratives-the-birth-of-a-nation-after-the-us-civil-wart
No, we won't ask them to be nice back, only liberals need to be nice"
I'm going to wait until after the election before officially agreeing with you (contingent on who wins, of course).
signed, the punisher