when you’re in grade school you learn about the war of 1812 as a kind of curiosity but i’ve read a few books this year where it has come up and to me, it seems like the first episode of “america fucks around and finds out with an ill-conceived war”
Comments
Log in with your Bluesky account to leave a comment
one interesting part of the story is that the war was conceived, in part, as a way to save face after jefferson’s disastrous decision to end american exports in response to british provocations in the atlantic
I totally recommend the book "What So Proudly We Hailed : Essays on the Contemporary Meaning of the War Of 1812." Each essay is about 20-30 pages and does a great job blending history, poli sci, and relevant lesson-drawing.
Jefferson was such an edge lord, cosplaying as a farmer in order to further his own myth… when in reality, his only successful business was a nail factory run by child/slave labor. Super cool guy.
I really feel like there is a fun popular history book to be written on wars that a country tells itself that it 'won' but didn't: the war of 1812 being one of them. Though it's got nothing on 1688 and England, in which a literal Dutch invasion has been retconned as 'bloodless'.
It did, however, end the tangles the US found itself every time Great Britain and France got nasty with each other. And it established the US Navy as an international fighting force instead of TJ's flotillas of gunboats. Of course, getting the national capital burned was sort of a bummer.
Although "international fighting force" is a "terms and conditions may apply" item, no? Managed to establish that reputation through frigate engagements while the RN was otherwise occupied.
Also, it proved that the Constitution worked in wartime. The war was declared by Congress, President Madison followed the declaration and, in the middle of the war, when the Hartford Convention was flirting with secession, he let them blow off steam and didn't arrest them.
Eh, we burned down York (i.e., Toronto). Call it an even trade. And we did it while in the middle of figuring out stuff like "is a professional army better or worse than a bunch of guys who brought their own muskets" and "should we have a federal tax policy, or is that too monarchy-coded."
What about the Quasi–War with France? Declaring debt incurred during the War of Independence to be suspended of repayment with the French deciding to seize prizes at sea instead.
My beloved USCG, born from the Revenue Cutter Service, was the main American force at sea.
I only recently learned that Federalist delegates from the New England states met at the Hartford Convention in Dec 1814-Jan 1815 to strategize ways to respond to what they saw as a wasteful conflict in the War of 1812 and to the unfair power given to Southern states in the Three-fifths Compromise.
One of avenue discussed at the Hartford Convention to respond to the undue power of Southern slaver states and to the economic goofiness that led to the War of 1812 was secession by the New England states.
As a New Englander, I note the saying "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
An under-appreciated fact about Jefferson is that he built up a whole media empire of that played fast and loose with facts and bandied around conspiracy theories about his enemies--that he himself marinated in so much he came to believe a lot of it! Stuff about Hamilton particularly.
Little Jemmy would have been nothing without Dolly. To me, it is puzzling as to why he came out of that ordeal unscathed politically. It was basically an invasion of Canada gone awry. If not for the naval actions on the lakes we might be subjects of King Chuck III.
"“The acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching; & will give us experience for the attack of Halifax the next, & the final expulsion of England from the American continent.” - Thomas Jefferson, August 1812
more on jefferson: he’s also the first example of a guy spending most of a decade railing against executive overreach, winning power, and then immediately expanding the powers of the presidency beyond anyone’s imagination
I hate to find myself defending TJ (ugh) but at least he was conflicted about it all. Like, during the controversy over buying Louisiana he calls cabinet meetings to wrangle about whether he can do it without asking Congress and/or amending the Constitution.
He was also “conflicted” about raping the 16 year old he enslaved and keeping her and the four children he sired enslaved. TJ’s conflicts were really just the glare of his lack of moral character when it hit sunlight. See Notes on the State of Virginia.
Reading up on Jefferson makes one a hellllll of a lot more sympathetic to Adams.
Adams managed to be our first non-rich, non-slave holding President, who had a moral compass that stands the test of time, and yet we dog on him because the mans was grumpy
Adams was responsible for the Alien and Sedition Acts, which are the basis of numerous episodes of government repression including (per the Alien Enemies Act) Japanese American internment, and cited as the legal foundation for Trump’s plans for mass deportation.
He remains the most complex figure in all of our history. The people who beatify him don't get it, and, I think, the people who reactionarily vilify everything about him don't, either.
fanatically dedicated into making America into his vision of a nation of smallholder yeomen unless France might be selling a shit ton of land then all bets are off
He did not buy the land. He bouggt the claim to the land. Huve difference, as the Native nations still owned the land, and that, the US had to buy in treaties...
Huh. Just read a bit about it on Wikipedia, which far expanded my previous knowledge of the four years of war, which previously had just been the mention in the Marine Corps Hymn "... to the shores of Tripoli."
USians really have no sense of even our own history... 😬😅
It's amazing the USA survived at all. Everything from the signing of the constitution through the civil war just seems to be "Try it and see what happens" No real strategy or plans. Just crass opportunism and the good fortune to be far enough away from the empires of the world.
I always get irritated when someone brings up his quote about the tree of liberty being refreshed with the blood of tyrants without pointing out that he wrote that when he was in Paris, thousands of miles from the merest hint of bloodshed
Partly because J didn’t understand Hamilton’s extremely adept management of the nation’s funds, and was sure the Adams admin, and H in particular, were stealing left and right from the public coffers. After he was elected and his folks examined the books, seems J had more faith in the Treasury…
Jefferson founded UVA, a public university, because he believed there could be no democracy without a well-educated common man/ citizenery. His notion of who could be a full citizen was focked, however the rest is absolutely and still so absolutely true today
Henry Adams, as I recall, is particularly brutal on this subject in his History of the period, especially on Jefferson's abandonment of his principles with regard to the Purchase. To be fair, Adams didn't think Napoleon had any more power to sell than Jefferson did to buy.
I always end up with the impression that Jefferson’s biggest philosophical objection to the Constitution was that he wasn’t recalled from France to help write it.
Given that he's responsible for the Lewis and Clark Expedition, which laid the groundwork for the conquest of most of the United States, he was really gunning for emperor.
T Jefferson's great pitch: "The acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching..." (Reader: it was not.)
The peace medals featuring Jefferson and handed out during Lewis and Clark’s expedition — and the whole “you have a new great father” bit — was definitely something they didn’t teach in school.
There’s also some amusing articles in the NYT archive where America demands reparations from the British in the aftermath of the war. Very toddler tantrum vibes.
Just think if he'd been even moderately competent. For all the many faults of the Hamilton model of Central banking and strong central government the U.S. either wouldn't exist or would be vassal state under the "let's be agrarian and let the states decide" Jefferson model.
Just finished Erik Larson’s new book on the siege of Fort Sumter, and the unbridled euphoria of prominent Charlstonians and secessionist fire-eaters has a very similar vibe.
I should probably read some more of his works. I read "The Devil in the White City" while researching H. H. Holmes for a Criminal Law class report. It was a compelling work.
I just taught this to my high school students which allowed me to rant once again that Jefferson was an awful president. His lone accomplishment (the Louisiana Purchase) should be credited to the Haitian Revolution.
"Hey, US of A, you thought fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan sucked? Check this out! Do a poor enough job of this and we can be at war with half a continent!"
Jefferson was an incredible philosopher and an absolute turd at actually doing stuff. Loved the French causes like Trump loves being complimented. The idea of Jefferson was way better than the actual guy. If any Founding Father deserves some serious side eye, it's that fucking guy.
That was still the England vs. Pre-Revolution Royal France wars.
The Revolution did get French help (Lafayette in particular), and various German mercenaries.
(Polish/Lithuanian Casimir Pulaski was there on his own, though.)
I was told that at least some Americans are taught that they won the war of 1812. In Canada, of course, we believe we won. Can you add any context to this?
I agree 100% but only Jefferson's name was mentioned in the post and I responded accordingly. This does open to further doors to name all the other heads from the community of BlueSky members.
I agree 100% but only Jefferson's name was mentioned in the post and I responded accordingly. This does open to further doors to name all the other heads from the community of BlueSky members.
One of the worst ideas in our history ; thankfully we settled shit for the most part except the whole “let’s continue to supply textiles with that cheap cotton, how do you get that cotton to be so cheap and abundant”
Very much about national pride, but even then I was surprised to learn how divided congress was on the issue of war leading up to declaration. We did not have the naval capacity to contest, could have ended in disaster
I believe they very briefly tried that with Canada during the Revolution and then went home shocked they didn't want to join, so it's probably always been baked in a little.
Well, there wasn’t as much Canada at the time. Halifax was a big British naval base so Nova Scotia couldn’t join. They tried invading Quebec and were thrown back. And Ontario was largely settled by Loyalists who had to flee the US after the Revolution!
I was a terrible student in HS, failed 13 classes, and yet I still absolutely destroyed in a Hamilton (me) vs Jefferson (class golden boy) debate in an American History class (I'm cdn). The actual history made it just way too easy.
Isn’t this where capitalism is supposed to save us? I mean really. The things he’s proposing are going to cause financial chaos around the world immediately. Aren’t people within the government and without supposed to intervene, and then congress in turn? That’s how it’s deigned, no? Real Q. 🙏
I cannot recommend highly enough the song "The War of 1812" by The Arrogant Worms. Lyrics include: "And the White House burned, burned, burned, and we're the ones that did it!"
Living in Canada for a few years opened my eyes to some parts of US-Canadian history that were taught differently 😂
I'd like to recommend Daniel Walker Howe's What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815-1848 (Oxford, 2007). He starts with the war of 1812 and places it within its historical context and what transpires afterwards, esp the rise of Jackson and Indian removal.
An historian I know said that it's good, though Howe "goes off the reservation" some. He suggested Charles Sellers, The Market Revolution: Jacksonian America 1815-1846. That was a slog, but has the best sections on why the central bank was hated so much at the time and Jackson destroyed it.
I happened to be around an American high school teacher when I was celebrating Canada Day one year. He arrogantly asked, “What war did you win?”
1812 was my answer. He went silent. 😂
Took a family trip to Ottawa a few years back and one evening in front of the House of Commons they had a presentation of Canadian history in which America was portrayed as powermad and hungry for territory for the war of 1812.
Also interesting that no one mentions that the British attacked Washington DC, because we attacked York (Toronto). The only thing that completely saved our asses was the guys who ran up from DC to help defend Baltimore.
Growing up in the U.S., I have definitely acquired a different appreciation for late 18th through early 19th century history of this region since moving to Canada a decade ago.
Most surprising was finding out what the Declaration of Independence decrying "abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government" really meant.
They definitely didn't teach that in U.S. history class in Texas.
SO true. Imagine how better off we would be today, if England had decided after beating our arrogant asses, to just stay and undue the war of "independence". Imagine how much sooner racism and slavery would have ended!!!
It’s like when baseball teams clear the benches and brawl (Revolutionary War) then once everyone calms down this one guy throws another punch and they all start fighting again but it’s more stupid this time (1812).
As a Baltimorean the war of 1812 is more important to me than most. I was even a living historian at fort mchenry for a summer. But yeah it was in the end a kinda pointless war as nothing really changed at all after it.
Reading Alan Taylor's book I laughed at how the Southern states were gung ho for the war but panicked at the prospect of MORE northern states. So they campaigned to prevent a promise of statehood for the Canadian territories. Which soured the war to even the many Americans living north of the border
it's also an excellent early example of "personnel are policy" when 12 years of extremely shitty political alliance-making with military appointments by the Democratic Republicans results in a bunch of key serious weaknesses in the officer corps and material capacity of the military.
In 2012, I happened to be at a conference in Ottawa so checked out the history museum, which was commemorating the war. They had four loops presenting the war from each of four perspectives--US, Canadian, Britain, and Indigenous. It was eye opening and fascinating.
For a different view of the War of 1812, I invite you to spend some time around the Niagara Peninsula in Canada visiting historic sites. The local university is named after the British general. Canada's most famous confectionery company is named after a woman who spied against the Americans.
That said, as others in the replies have mentioned, like all wars in the Americas, it was terrible for First Nations.
I actually wasn't taught about the War of 1812 in school. I went to school in Quebec in the 1970s & early 1980s, when Quebec nationalist views of history were in the ascendant.
And, then those hardened veterans of the war in Spain and France go on to lose 3 of the last 4 battles of the war. At the same time the most powerful fleet is unable to protect shipping, losing more than 400 merchant ships to US privateers.
Drops in the bucket. The only thing that allowed the US to dodge getting completely curb stomped by Britain once the Napolean threat was quashed was 20 plus years of war weariness on the part of Britain.
Napoleon fell in April 1814. The last 8 months of the war were fought without that drain on British manpower.s Indeed, the British demobilized a sizeable portion of Wellington's army. A number of 2d battalion were simply absorbed into their 1st battalions and the colours returned home.
Nope. After Napoleon's first fall from power, England's Spanish veterans began transferring to the western hemisphere. At the same time, much of Wellesley's army was demobilized.
The US war was over when Napoleon returned from Elba and some of the troops had returned from America.
The Canadians considered themselves the winners because the US agreed to no longer invade or pressure Canada to join the US.
The US had eyes on Canada since the start of the Revolution. There was a clause in the Articles of Confederation “inviting” Canada to join the US.
That and the effect that losing 400 merchant ships had on insurance rates and the British economy.
The futility of the Chesapeake campaign, the failure to restore Spanish territory, and the stalemate in Canada left the British with an expensive war they didn't want.
So, yeah, they bailed.
Said privateers were then bottled up in port or finally captured when the Royal Navy started bringing ships capable of defeating the heavily armed US frigates.
America lost the last land battle at Fort Bowyer.
It arguably lost the war, because it did not succeed in it's aim to capture Canada.
Though the impressment and the border disputes in the west did go the US's way which was the fig leaf for the war. But yeah, they wanted Canada and aside from some success in the interior, really didn't get far. The war ended up permanently putting Canada out of reach.
Agreed.
The impressment ended arguably because, having defeated the French and Spanish, the RN did not need to impress sailors from US ships.
The fact remains that many were British deserters and not US citizens.
The failure to take Canada, which was always a futile hope, was the 1 strategic failure. The desire to take Canada was not a reason for starting the war.
Impressment, trade embargo, support for the native tribes on the Northwest frontier, and provocations at sea were the contributing causes.
Fort Bowyer was arguably meaningless. It was part of Britain's attempt to restore Spanish territory to the Spanish crown.
Meaningless because the return to the status quo ante bellum returned the place to Spain.
That's the 1 US defeat I counted in the last 4 battles.
Equally as meaningless as the battle of New Orleans; fought after the Treaty of Ghent was signed (but before it was ratified).
The truth is that Britain was war-weary and on a path of recovery after the long Napoleonic wars and no longer interested in North America; India was far more important.
I'm a Canadian, living in the Niagara area. We never saw it as a curiosity, we saw it as the earliest days of our independence. Our region is strewn with battlegrounds, hallowed grounds.
In long ago 8th grade Michigan History class, I think we learned about it as more of a “We held our own” situation than a capital V victory. I’ve been reading lots of individual stories about the war the past 12 months. Time for a good comprehensive book about it I guess.
Grade school lessons of the War of 1812:
1. Rockets’ red glare. Bombs bursting in air. Our flag was still there!
2. White House burns but Dolly Madison is a bad ass bitch.
3. Tornado/massive storm killed a bunch of British soldiers and doused the fires, so God was on our side
Try this one out. This is about a little known battle in a remote corner of the Deep South that gave us Andrew Jackson as a national hero. More info at https://jamessturdivant.com
By the time your side got serious, a junior British officer put an end to the whole nonsense. The two ships he captured were scuttled and lay at the bottom of my hometown’s harbour.
I think it's curious that it's kinda glossed over the while ordeal, or at least it was in my history books growing up. Can't have America looking like a fool to Americans 👀
Nah, New York was only the capital from 1787-1790, Philly was the capital 1790-1800, and John Adams moved into the White House on November 1, 1800. (And then lost the election of 1800 to Thomas Jefferson, so he only lived there for four months.)
My history professor in my survey class first year of college (UGA) characterized it as an attempt for the sons of the men of the revolution to prove that their dicks were as large as their fathers’.
I wrote about it for the New Yorker a few years ago (Google claims it was a dozen years ago, but that can't be right), and it's almost funny how confused the whole thing was, as far as anyone's intentions went.
The UK wasn't recognizing US sovereignty, treating US ships as renegades, capturing US crews & forcing them into the Royal Navy.
The British gave the US casus belli, and that conduct stopped after the war, they finally respected US sovereignty. It was bloody, but the underlying goal was achieved.
That’s the traditional version, yes. In reality, the Brits stopped impressing seamen from American ships because they didn’t need to anymore. Napoleon was defeated* and the Royal Navy was in drawdown - ships were being paid off and laid up in ordinary. There were no major naval actions during
Boy oh boy, if you're going down that rabbit hole and hadn't already previously, finding out about "40 Acres and a Mule" which was literally a throwaway phrase when I went through K-12 really kind of...
Really helps see how little progress has been made.
After the 1789 peace treaty between them ( British) and US the war of 1812 was a repeat of the BRITS trying to conquer again so we could pay them taxes for their high priced TEA. They burned the White House and Dolly supposedly saved some valuable paintings.
For me the COVID era has been about reading something or hearing about something and needing to understand the historical context. (OK, I have issues facing the 21st century.) I'm in China now, but this might be my next deep dive: History That Doesn't Suck podcast has three episodes on 1812.
And when you grow up you support the candidate who's BFF Dick Cheney lied us into a war that cost trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives.
Yes but also no, doubly so if you consider that it achieved the goal of separating the native tribes from the UK who were supporting them against US westward expansion.
Got closer before that with the Oregon boundary dispute
Fortunately, the US decided to go to war with Mexico instead and were able to negotiate a reasonable compromise (which then set up conditions for the Pig War...)
Was fun going to Ottawa and seeing the statue of the heroic multiracial Canadian patriots defending liberty against marauding genocidal American invaders
To Americans, the confused and unsatisfactory sequel to the Revolution, to Brits, the confused and unsatisfactory sideshow to the Napoleonic Wars, to Canadians, the national epic.
I was horrified to learn recently that US troops were allowed to capture and enslave free African Canadians during the war of 1812. By then the transatlantic slave trade had been banned and so there was demand for enslavement by other means.
I didn’t learn that Americans learn that the War of 1812 was a draw or a stalemate until adulthood. If you start a war to annex land and you annex no land, isn’t that a loss?
They didn't star a war to annex land, they started it to push back on British impressment at sea, embargoes on trade with France, and Britain's support of indigenous uprisings in the west.
Even the state department lists control of North America as one of the three causes. I’m not saying it was the only issue but it wasn’t not an issue or intent. It also drove the war rhetoric.
The main driver of war rhetoric were notions of national honor; pushing back on the empire that engaged in humiliating ship boarding/kidnapping and arming natives.
Madison's war declaration address says lots about shipping and little about northern expansion. https://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gna/Quellensammlung/04/04_madisonwarmessage_1812.htm
Jefferson wasn't the president in 1812 and that quote appears to come from a private letter, not some sort of public address, and the letter was filled with a lot of... wishful thinking... including plans to hire mercenaries to burn down London. Wouldn't take it too seriously.
Was that before or after all your troops fell through the ice on High Park Pond and drowned? (There is a memorial for them there. We are nothing if not civilized.)
Basically, the British were hunting for deserters, which the US was protecting. The US did start a war to annex land. School history is propaganda. The other thing is the UK was moving more and more for abolition.
There several global conflicts that can fit:
- Nine Years' War (1688-1697)
- War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714)
- Seven Year's War (1756-1763)
- Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815)
Had to chose one: Seven Year's War (going with Churchill here).
I listened to Gordon Wood’s Empire of Liberty as an audio book on my commute when it came out and it’s probably the only time I commented on a book like watching a game. “Why are you trying to dismantle the fledging military when you are trying to start a war!?!?” Etc
Made them abandon the whole idea of a citizen militia army in exchange for creating an actual standing army, but they forgot to fix 2A while they were at it...
I live in NW Ohio and there was forts here from both sides of the war and learning a bit about Battle of Lake Erie in grade school and it’s always been framed “The mean British were jealous of us” and not the “we sacked Toronto and the Brits retaliated”. Very wild finding that out as an adult.
I recall either reading about it or watching a documentary about it but Tecumseh definitely got screwed by the British when the treaty was signed. If they had received what was promised history would certainly played out differently
Most wars are ill-conceived, no matter who the aggressor is. I see WWII as the last absolutely required US engagement, and in my study of European history I am inclined to believe Ukraine is the same, despite a personal history in the peace movement.
It really is crazy how much of it is just indigenous ambushes though. Like 10 straight paragraphs of sending militia detachments into the unknown and getting completly wrecked
Brits were treating us as a wayward colony rather than an independent state in a lot of little ways. Not the least their unwillingness to recognize US citizenship of Irish immigrants. It wasn’t an advisable war all in all but it transitioned our relationship with the crown going forwards.
The best part about the war of 1812 is in the Bible belt, evangelicals legitimately believe that like the whole war revolves around the razing of DC and God sent tornadoes and storms to save the US.
Not really. The Canadians won every battle. New Orleans happened after the treaty of Paris was signed, but before news could reach them. Finally, the British signed the treaty and deeply upset the Canadian colonists and their Native American allies.
Yes but nothing changed. Canada remained part of the British empire for another century. Yes they weren’t annexed by the United States. But that was never going to happen. The US military was never strong enough to pull that off
Yeah, I watched a documentary on it earlier this year and it's a lot more ridiculous than I realized. Had no idea America's initial plan was to annex Canada. We honestly got lucky Britain didn't retake the US.
When I was a barista we had an annual regular customer who came to Canada from the US every summer because he was an 1812 enthusiast. Evidently our national perspectives on that conflict differ somewhat.
Nearly every Canadian over 50 yo knows the US was the aggressor. They stated the war based on the belief that US Manifest Destiny was to possess the N. American continent from Mexico to 54th parallel.
The irony is that we almost lost our republic during the War of 1812 which actually, my birthday. A strong opposition to the war..
The war ended in a stalemate which kept our republic through the Treaty of Ghent. It was a stupid war & song. Now without a shot we might lose our republic for real
What about that fake assignation shot to the ear? I'd say that boosted trump in a pretty big way. Funny how Iran is no longer plotting to assassinate him. Bets there won't be Republicans hiding on rooftops or near fences of golf greens any soon, or ever?
Well it was a real shot it just wasn't meant to hit him. The poor sacrificial lamb was killed while the con man pretended to have gotten shot in the ear which miraculously healed.
Oh very much so. They really need to cover it as it shows the stark difference between a surprise war and one your enemy is prepared for. It also showed that the US has always had mixed results in war.
My “the 1812 War was taught kind of like it’s a curiosity kind of answers why it was taught like a curiosity” t-shirt. This kind of shit happens lot. In fact, it’s absolutely necessary for nation building.
Which books, if you don't mind me asking? I am reading The Demon of Unrest (lead up to civil war) and would love to know more about the period just before that.
Came in to say Alan Taylor, as someone else mentioned. An extraordinary book. Also *highly* recommend Nicole Eustace, _1812: War & The Passions of Patriotism_. It's unique, compelling and feels deeply personal.
As mentioned in the thread above, Alan Taylor's *The Civil War of 1812* is a social history of the war the underscores the divisions within the Republic. https://youtu.be/VXmRzrAVdB8?si=FwXc96YjRzBlixKe
I’m defined in my history. France was one of our only allies. We traded with them. Napoleon was our pit bull. Britain was the only reason we came here and France is fighting Britain??? We got France back like they had ours during the Revolution. Nobody won but who cares. Brits were bullies 🖕🤨🖕
Every war, actually. WW1 was a shit show, and WW2 would have been far worse without Stalin throwing twenty million soldiers into the meat grinder. Ever since then it's been a feast of shit eating followed by chest beating. America sucks at everything except PR.
Americans don’t even learn the correct facts. It’s the war where Canada invaded the US and burned the White House. You all learn it as “the British”. Canada was at the time a British colony and so provided the convenient troops for this purpose.
I moved to Canada in 2012, so I got to get a real contrast in historical perspectives -- crickets in the USA, a really weirdly jingoistic celebration all over Toronto. Canadians taking pride in the acts of the Crown as there own is something I probably will never really understand.
I would say that it ratified something that had come to be in the preceding decade and a half or so. The influx of American Loyalist exiles, changing relationship with Native Americans, impact of the Napoleonic trade conflicts had made Canadians into something diff't, 1812 helped them realize it.
Yeah a bunch of Americans show up and burn your town down and you're not likely to believe them that they're here to liberate you. First instance of many to come.
Dickishness aside, there is a fundamental mistrust in US American and Canadian indigenous relations, squarely based on skullduggery and betrayal. For contracts to be accepted, their rules should be obeyed.
Definitely. A lot of Canadian mythology came out of that war. Brock and Tecumseh, Fort York, Laura Secord, the maple leaves at Chateauguay, Grenadier Pond… I think I’m forgetting a big one.
I am teaching my students about child labor, and we started discussing repatriation. One kid said, how stupid to round up people for just wanting a better life.
You hit the nail on the head, sir. I don't know if you had a chance to read up about General Wilkinson and the Battle of Crysler's Farm yet, but the absurdity of the whole situation will blow your mind lol
James Madison may be the most consequentially disastrous US President. He shrunk the army to a militia, stopped infrastructure development, let the US Bank collapses, THEN picked a fight with the most powerful country in the world, getting the White House occupied and torched.
I recently finished Adam Shoalts travel book “Where the Falcon Flies.” It was an education into just how much that war contributed to Canadian identity.
Yeah, here in Baltimore people don't present it that way. It's all BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR and OUR FLAG WAS STILL THERE and the Battle of North Point. The bigger picture doesn't really come up.
Came here to say this lol - also visiting Fort McHenry is a real mindfuck when you realize they were on this little unprotected hill shooting cannons into a foggy night, I don’t know how people didn’t have major panic attacks at war!
I took a genealogy course, which incorporated the War of 1812, late last year and read books on the subject. The War of 1812 divided a lot of Native Americans, too.
British Canada providing refuge to escaped slaves and hiring them to join the British military in exchange for freedom. It's in the last part of the National Anthem. We don't sing that part. Tells too much truth about the U.S.
The U.S. did get Michigan back (eventually.) The Brits were very slow about giving it to the U.S. after the Treaty of Paris, as it was, holding on until 1796.
This is going to be a very uninformed question, but how did 1812 impact the racialization of America Empire? It seems that since their first venture against a colonial brother/European power ended disasterously, they instead moved to more easily "justifiable" targets for future expansion
When you invade a sovereign country so you can steal all their land, think it will be a cakewalk, and all the “Canadians”will come to your aid because you are “freeing” them along with incompetent Leaders and a small force, while ignoring the strategic advantage of the Brits holding the Great Lakes…
Chances are good you’re going to get your asses handed to you. And the US did. It did not achieve any of its goals, was forced back by over the border and had their Capital city burned to the ground.
That isn’t a draw, that’s LOSING.
Reading "What God Hath Wrought" (on your rec, I think) and the phony myth of the Battle of New Orleans making Jackson into a national hero struck me. The mythic version made it all the way to the Johnny Horton song in the 1950s! And the war was already over!
Comments
😏
My beloved USCG, born from the Revenue Cutter Service, was the main American force at sea.
As a New Englander, I note the saying "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
Not to mention the underskilled, underqualified bloviating Generals that left Washington vulnerable to begin with!
https://youtu.be/o7jlFZhprU4?si=0Jq9yDGOXyRlbvuZ
That was from the Pride and Prej movie but I always think it applies to Jefferson too.
Adams managed to be our first non-rich, non-slave holding President, who had a moral compass that stands the test of time, and yet we dog on him because the mans was grumpy
USians really have no sense of even our own history... 😬😅
You're complaining about the Barbary Wars when you should be preparing for the Vietnam War to disappear into the ether.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Becomes President
“Let’s invade North Africa!”
Deep roots, American political hypocrisy has.
Pure hagiography. That colleague and I never clicked.
The brits burned the white house and pissed on it
It gave Andrew Jackson his rise with the nickname "the second George Washington"
And how about our national anthem with it's pro-slavery verses...
Yet, so few Americans know anything about it 😕
They didn’t.
"Why are the Natives attacking US? We're just precious little guys! Totally innocent babies!"
*completely and totally insults and degrades the Wampanoag in every way, shape and form*
"Pure as the driven snow!"
⚓️ An end to impressment!
🏰 Brit forts out of Ohio Valley!
🇨🇦 Canada!
We got:
💩
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0CvSIhF_tA
Accurate
https://eriklarsonbooks.com/book/the-demon-of-unrest/
England-vs-Napoleon wars.
The Revolution did get French help (Lafayette in particular), and various German mercenaries.
(Polish/Lithuanian Casimir Pulaski was there on his own, though.)
Every college and uni that had even the slightest connection to him bragged about it in their brochures.
W&M, NYU because of Gallatin (lol)
Wilson is a villain who did like 2 good things, who history sees as a mixed bag.
Living in Canada for a few years opened my eyes to some parts of US-Canadian history that were taught differently 😂
1812 was my answer. He went silent. 😂
The saving grace is that the British saw it as a sideshow for most of the war.
They definitely didn't teach that in U.S. history class in Texas.
I actually wasn't taught about the War of 1812 in school. I went to school in Quebec in the 1970s & early 1980s, when Quebec nationalist views of history were in the ascendant.
The US war was over when Napoleon returned from Elba and some of the troops had returned from America.
The US had eyes on Canada since the start of the Revolution. There was a clause in the Articles of Confederation “inviting” Canada to join the US.
The futility of the Chesapeake campaign, the failure to restore Spanish territory, and the stalemate in Canada left the British with an expensive war they didn't want.
So, yeah, they bailed.
America lost the last land battle at Fort Bowyer.
It arguably lost the war, because it did not succeed in it's aim to capture Canada.
The impressment ended arguably because, having defeated the French and Spanish, the RN did not need to impress sailors from US ships.
The fact remains that many were British deserters and not US citizens.
Impressment, trade embargo, support for the native tribes on the Northwest frontier, and provocations at sea were the contributing causes.
Meaningless because the return to the status quo ante bellum returned the place to Spain.
That's the 1 US defeat I counted in the last 4 battles.
The truth is that Britain was war-weary and on a path of recovery after the long Napoleonic wars and no longer interested in North America; India was far more important.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StthiX-cGTU
1. Rockets’ red glare. Bombs bursting in air. Our flag was still there!
2. White House burns but Dolly Madison is a bad ass bitch.
3. Tornado/massive storm killed a bunch of British soldiers and doused the fires, so God was on our side
America, F*** yeah!
https://youtu.be/o7jlFZhprU4?si=o2E5nT4r4p-aGiGy
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/worsley_miller_6E.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsfz3f18NxU&ab_channel=neveralone71
"Oh yeah and they... kinda...
...ᵇᵘʳⁿᵉᵈ ᵈᵒʷⁿ ᵒᵘʳ ᶜᵃᵖᶦᵗᵒˡ ᵃⁿᵈ ʷᵉ ʰᵃᵈ ᵗᵒ ʳᵉˡᵒᶜᵃᵗᵉ ᶦᵗ ᵗᵒ ᵂᵃˢʰᶦⁿᵍᵗᵒⁿ, ᴰ.ᶜ."
The British gave the US casus belli, and that conduct stopped after the war, they finally respected US sovereignty. It was bloody, but the underlying goal was achieved.
*mostly. See “the Hundred Days” for details. Sneaky Corsican!
Really helps see how little progress has been made.
https://search.worldcat.org/en/title/699764923
Tecumseh captured Detroit with with brains rather than brawn, but is largely forgotten.
The Confederacy fell apart with his death in 1812.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh
Fortunately, the US decided to go to war with Mexico instead and were able to negotiate a reasonable compromise (which then set up conditions for the Pig War...)
US lost at Ridgway
Niagara on the lake
And others
US burned York (Toronto)
Then Brits and Canadians burned the White House
Madison's war declaration address says lots about shipping and little about northern expansion.
https://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gna/Quellensammlung/04/04_madisonwarmessage_1812.htm
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/toronto-feature-grenadier-pond-high-park
The thing is, all of those things about Toronto are still true!
- Nine Years' War (1688-1697)
- War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714)
- Seven Year's War (1756-1763)
- Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815)
Had to chose one: Seven Year's War (going with Churchill here).
As a native 🇨🇦, I always have found this piece really interesting on the War of 1812: https://thewalrus.ca/that-time-we-beat-the-americans/
https://youtu.be/StthiX-cGTU?si=NCMckAplXrEbEBIB
but uh the "invading Canada" part... yeah
Tecumseh's Confederacy lost in a freedom struggle to an increasingly imperialistic America.
Those bombs bursting in air? War of 1812.
I wish I was exaggerating
British: We were trying to fight Napoleon, and here comes the USA with their fribbling complaints!
US: The British were throwing their weight around and we had to Take Steps!
Canadian: There we were, minding our own business, and FOR NO REASON...
To put things back as they were
They wanted to stop US expansion and they did
Me: the war of what-now? That's the one where we tied and I think Andrew Jackson got a song maybe? How do they teach it here?
Red-cheeked Canadians: *deep inhale*
The war ended in a stalemate which kept our republic through the Treaty of Ghent. It was a stupid war & song. Now without a shot we might lose our republic for real
*puts book on TBR list*
https://youtu.be/_L-vL5NFkYA?si=ZV6kNR3ZwQiNrEwk
https://youtu.be/Tq0LLB-X4is?si=e6jeR1w-3ofkaTbm
-
Oh shit
That isn’t a draw, that’s LOSING.